H4831 is not listed for .308 on my Lee chart.

[Ignition Override]

A friend just sold me eight lbs. of this, and it is not under any bullet weights on the chart which came with the Lee dies. But it is listed on the Lee chart for British .303.
My only reloading book is Speer, dated 1973, also with no H4831 (if it existed) for Win. .308.

I would rather use this powder for my 170 grain bullets, because the only two calibers reload now are both .308 Win. and .303 British.

Is there an Internet reference for an equivalent powder?
My loads for both rifles are always the "Start grains", as safety and brass life are the only objectives, and most targets are small plastic bottles.
Not kidding about bottles as primary targets and if I'm lucky, a piece of concrete block painted orange.

 

[helotaxi]

Check the load data on Hodgdon's website.

 

[jcwit]

Don't see anything on their web site either for that weight bullet.

 

[helotaxi]

Might be a little on the slow side. The .308 likes mostly the same powders as the .223 and 4831 is too slow for the .223 by a good margin.

 

[56hawk]

I ran a QuickLOAD calculation and you will hit load capacity around 50 grains of H4831. With this load velocity will only be around 2350 FPS. Quite a bit less than the usual 2700 FPS for a 170 grain bullet. I'd say give it a try, even with the case filled to the top you aren't going to be close to maximum pressure levels.

 

[Ignition Override]

Thanks very much.

No luck seeing this powder on the Hodgdon website.
It would be a shame to only use it in the Enfield, in case the burn rate is too slow for the M-1 Garand's op rod and heel.

No exaggeration that most of my shooting is into small plastic bottles at 50-150'.
Either this H4831 does not produce very consistent hits (small groups), or it is unsafe, but I can't imagine that. Which is it?
It's safe enough for .303 British (though in a longer case), which has slower muzzle velocity anyway...

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If a powder company does not list a powder for a caliber there's usually a very good reason. I would not use a rifle powder in a caliber that the manufacturer doesn't list for that caliber. (especially since it's not a new powder) I don't even like using H4831 in the 30-06 because I feel it's too slow a powder in that application.

Why did you buy H4831 before you were sure it would work in the calibers you load?

 

[243winxb]

308 Win. & H4831

http://www.stevespages.com/page8a.htm Steve's Pages has listed for a 170gr H-4831 From 46.0 grains to 50.0 grains
Poor choice of powder. Edit Add> Lyman #45 lists the old 4831 (NO H) with a 180gr bullet 45gr-2096fps & 50.5gr-2398fps.

 

[NCsmitty]

You really need to do a little research before laying down your money. As ArchAngelCD mentioned, the tip off is the lack of loads or data in that caliber. It's a excellent powder in larger capacity cases like 300 Win mag.
You live and learn.


NCsmitty

 

[243winxb]

the burn rate is too slow for the M-1 Garand's op rod and heel.

I would guess yes, to slow.

 

[Ignition Override]

ArchangelCD/NCsmitty:

A friend's father had about thirty-forty lbs. of powder when he passed away.
Even though the friend is my gun guru (who retired from the Navy Rifle Team: AR 15), he has plenty of powder that he needs. He doesn't use any of these and therefore sold the 8 lb. unopened jug to me at a major discount.

He also sold me eight bottles of H 380, 4895 and BLC-2 for only .10/lb. Cheaper than this 4831 and too hard to pass up.

 

[denton]

Varget is about the right match for the 308. Varget is faster than 4350, which, in turn, is faster than 4831.

4831 used to be used in the 30-06, and I guess still is. But even in that application, it is a bit on the slow side. When 4350 came out, it largely replaced 4831 in that application.

The place that the old style 4831 is ideal is in the 243 with 199 grain bullets.

 

[Ignition Override]

Thanks very much for you guys' responses. Reloading for two years in a simple routine, my only powder has been IMR 4064, and decided to save a bottle of my friend's 4895 for the Garand, as it will require a fast powder.

The next challenge will be finding .308 data for two large bottles of H 380 (about four lbs. total).

Maybe with H4831, there is data for the British .303, because the longer .303 (compared to .308) case creates less pressure on the brass?

 

[rcmodel]

Either 4064 or 4895 is perfectly fine in a Garand.
They were both orginally military powders used for it.
Burn rates & pressure curves are actually not that far apart.

You should be able to find any data you need for the powders you listed at Hodgdon web site.

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

If they don't list it in a particular caliber, it probably isn't a wise choice.

Again, 4831 is a very slow magnum class powder.
It is not at all suitable for medium capacity rifle cartridges like the .308 or .303.

The problem with it is, neither the .308 or .303 will hold enough of it to get the pressure up to where it needs to be for best performance.

rc

 

[Ignition Override]

rcmodel:
Your info helps explain why the Lee chart states 45 grains of H 4831 for "Start Grains" with .303.
Maybe the WC 852 (the label says "Similar to H 380") is also a slow-burning type, as it also is excluded from both the Lee and Hodgdon charts.

With IMR 4064, it prescribes only 39-43 grains, for a 150 grain .311 bullet (pulled Russian).

 

[788Ham]

In my Horndy reloading book, 7th Edition, it shows for 178 - 180 gr. bullets, 39.5 gr. of IMR 4064 to put that bullet out at 2300 fps, MAX charge 41.3 gr.

IMR 4895- 39.3 gr. @ 2300 fps, with 41.1 gr. MAX

 

[Ignition Override]

Thanks.

But I'll be stuck with the 8 lbs. of powder if there are no published loads for .303, using 170 grain .308 match bullets.

The "Start Load" 49 grains of H4831 for .303 British allows far too little space for these very long pulled Russian .311 bullets.

Somebody produced data for using (49/50 grains) of 4831 in the .308 for 180/165 grain bullets, but it fills the case to the edge of the neck, as another shooter had warned.
Maybe my friend will somehow procure some powder to trade for this. He still has contacts on the Navy Rifle Team and elsewhere, and is very resourceful.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Ignition Override,
Since you have 8 lbs of that fine powder you are going to have to buy a rifle in either .270 Win or 25-06 Rem. (or both) That H4831 will work GREAT in those 2 calibers...

 

[Ignition Override]

ArchAngelCD:

I appreciate your clear solution to my questions, but, at the risk of disappointing you, only certain military rifles are my gun interest:
Enfields (reload brass), both matching Spanish FR8s (reload), and my CMP Garand (one day, will reload).

Totally off the subject, but with my new Tech Sight on the Norinco SKS, the group today at 50 yards with the Only solid support under the Front of the rifle, was as tight as any other rifle. Five rds. were in a cluster, about 1 1/2" diameter, right in the middle of the Shoot-N-See bullseye. Could not believe it. Why even consider reloading 7.62x39, or buy an AR (woops..) for simple fun? This rifle now has a nice sight distance and the aperture.

This means that those other, accurate rifles propped on a bean bag in front and my fist curled underneath, supporting the stock, haven't really been any better in my untrained hands, or I've not tried in a while at 50 yards.