I am new to reloading so please bear with me. I recently purchased a Lee Classic Reloader kit For 44 magnum that came with a 1.3cc powder scoop. The supplied data card and the chart on Lee's website says the 1.3 scoop is equivalent to 19.8 grains H0110 or Win296 (not powders I want to learn on but its all they give me on the chart.) I also purchased a Lee, Lyman, and Hornady manuals to cross reference. My concern is this....all these manuals list a starting load of 23 grains for both powders but the Lee manual still says use the 1.3 scoop. is this incorrect info, are these scoops a worthwhile way to measure powder? I am slowly building my reloading setup and will take all advise seriously. Thank you.
lee powder scoop
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Shagg
Member
I use the Lee dippers but only to put powder on my scale. I'm too particular to not use a scale. I don't even trust a powder drop, but that's just me.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
Slow but sure you can make ammunition with those kits. While I suggest your next investment be a good basic scale you may also want to invest in a Lee Improved Powder Measure Kit which will open some doors as to powder measures giving you a full set. Even then, you are much better off with a scale.
What bullet and bullet weight are you loading?
Ron
What bullet and bullet weight are you loading?
Ron
I use the Lee dippers a lot. Most of my loading are low power practice, and the dipper is ideal for this. I have soldered a piece of thick copper wire to empty cases and filed them down to get an exact dipper for my favorites.
With your scale you will find your best load, and you can file the dipper to fit. Note that the Lee data is a midrange load. When getting close to a max load I use a slightly too small dipper to put the powder in the scale, then add powder to the right weight.
Without a scale you are limited to those powders and bullet weights, which will work fine as a midrange load. Safe with a good firearm. With a scale and manual you can do so much more.
With your scale you will find your best load, and you can file the dipper to fit. Note that the Lee data is a midrange load. When getting close to a max load I use a slightly too small dipper to put the powder in the scale, then add powder to the right weight.
Without a scale you are limited to those powders and bullet weights, which will work fine as a midrange load. Safe with a good firearm. With a scale and manual you can do so much more.
gamestalker
member
I use the scoops also, but only to get it from the cup to the scale, never to use as a measuring implement. And if you do use any volumetric measuring device you must use a scale to confirm it is actually producing the charge weight that is estimated, key word here is estimated.
Years ago when I had first started reloading, I bought the Lee scoop kit with the powder weight conversion table, and it was not even close to actual weights when I checked against my scale, so I never used it for anything other than a tool by which to handle powder. My buddy on the other hand, was loading 30-06 and borrowed my scoop kit to use exclusively as a measurement device, he ended up with the first 3 cartridges experiencing catastrophic case ruptures using IMR-4350, which has a pretty extensive charge table for 06 loads. So?
GS
Years ago when I had first started reloading, I bought the Lee scoop kit with the powder weight conversion table, and it was not even close to actual weights when I checked against my scale, so I never used it for anything other than a tool by which to handle powder. My buddy on the other hand, was loading 30-06 and borrowed my scoop kit to use exclusively as a measurement device, he ended up with the first 3 cartridges experiencing catastrophic case ruptures using IMR-4350, which has a pretty extensive charge table for 06 loads. So?
GS
Besides Lee, at least RCBS (Little Dandy powder measure) and MEC (shotshell loaders) have powder conversion charts for fixed cavity powder dispensing systems. There are some others but these two I have and use.
The charts are only a guide and rarely do the actual weights of powder dispensed actually match what the chart says.
Hence, a scale is very important o verify the powder charges are safe to use.
Usually, the rotor i would use with the Little Dandy to get close to the desired powder charge would be one off the recommended chart rotor. For the MEC shot shell loaders, I could be two bushings off.
I tried the scoops but I found that the amount scooped was inconsistent enough that I didn't trust it. I have found that the Lee Pro Autodisk http://leeprecision.com/pro-auto-disk.html works extremely well for pistols and small rifle rounds like the .30 Carbine and .223. Not so well for 30.06 and other large caliber rifle rounds. For that I use the Hornady measure http://www.ballisticproducts.com/pr...9&variation=&gclid=CIenyYS9-rkCFYqZ4AodTSUADw
jcwit
member
A scale is a must to verify weight. With that said there's nothing wrong with using dippers, they have been used since the early days for measuring charges of smokeless powder.
As far as weighing each and every charge, I'd much rather be shooting than messing around such as that. Furthermore does anyone actually think any of the manufactures weigh each and every charge.
As far as weighing each and every charge, I'd much rather be shooting than messing around such as that. Furthermore does anyone actually think any of the manufactures weigh each and every charge.
BSA1
member
H110 and W296 doesn't do well with reduced loads. It is designed for near max loads. I had found it really doesn't sit up and sing until I get grain below recommended max loads.
The load from the Lee scoop is way too light. Recommended starting load with 240 gr. JHP is 23 gr. with max at 24 gr.
http://www.reloadammo.com/44loads.htm
In fact I am going down to the man cave to pull the bullets from a box of 44 Mags. I reloaded 15 years ago. I discovered them when doing some cleaning yesterday. I don't remember where I got my data but the powder charge is well below recommended starting load for W296.
The load from the Lee scoop is way too light. Recommended starting load with 240 gr. JHP is 23 gr. with max at 24 gr.
http://www.reloadammo.com/44loads.htm
In fact I am going down to the man cave to pull the bullets from a box of 44 Mags. I reloaded 15 years ago. I discovered them when doing some cleaning yesterday. I don't remember where I got my data but the powder charge is well below recommended starting load for W296.
Your most important piece of equipment is a GOOD SCALE. Not a cheapo electronic one.
The dippers are fine if you know exactly what weight they hold. Your dipper and powder and mine (same powder) will vary due to lot number, humidity etc.
For a few bucks you can buy the completed set. Or make your own from old brass and file it down to make custom ones.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/943305/lee-improved-powder-measure-kit
To dip or scoop correctly pour the powder in a wider mouth cup or bowl. Scoop and do not tap or shake, use a card to level off the top. It will be very accurate.
H110 needs to be near or at the max load. There are other powders you can buy (if you can find any) that are more forgiving. Trail Boss, HP 38, 2400 and others.
Get a scale
The dippers are fine if you know exactly what weight they hold. Your dipper and powder and mine (same powder) will vary due to lot number, humidity etc.
For a few bucks you can buy the completed set. Or make your own from old brass and file it down to make custom ones.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/943305/lee-improved-powder-measure-kit
To dip or scoop correctly pour the powder in a wider mouth cup or bowl. Scoop and do not tap or shake, use a card to level off the top. It will be very accurate.
H110 needs to be near or at the max load. There are other powders you can buy (if you can find any) that are more forgiving. Trail Boss, HP 38, 2400 and others.
Get a scale
Before loading with dippers it is most important to read the book about modern reloading written R. Lee. In his book he makes it very clean safety is built into the design of his dippers. He makes it very clear it is impossible to overcharge a load with his dippers, he says the cone of powder above the dipper will not allow powder to stack any higher than designed. He also says a good business card is most helpful when developing starting loads, maximum loads depend on the cone of powder above the dipper.
F. Guffey
F. Guffey
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But as I said above, you have no idea what the charge is without weighing it.
The charts for the dippers and/or the auto discs are just approximate values based on the day,powder and alignment of the Stars
the day it was done. Just like tests in a manual.Depending on the powder you certainly can OVER charge or Under charge.
I can take my dipper and H110 and weigh it and it will be different than yours.
Once you know the exact weight and use the same method they are very accurate. I loaded with them for years.
A good powder measure is still better and you can't use either without a SCALE.
Spend the money for a tool that will last for ever and allow you to load safely, a Balance Beam type scale.
Dillon Eliminator,
RCBS
Hornaday
etc. etc
all made by OHAUS
Skip the LEE. it works but is a PITA to use
http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortby=1&itemsperpage=24&newcategorydimensionid=15180
Yes sorry the under charge response was to the above post bout the Lee dippers being safe. I am going to hold off loading anything until I have a chance to pick up a good quality scale. ( probably a week or two by the time I can get one delivered) Thank you all for the advise.
I suggest reading R. Lee’s book on modern reloading. I have slide charts, I have Lee’s book, my slide charts list each powder with each dipper, I have three different dipper sets, red, yellow and black. When using Lee’s data he list the powder and dipper.
I also have RCBS Little Dandy dumps and rotors, same thing, different rotors for different powders.
F. Guffey
I also have RCBS Little Dandy dumps and rotors, same thing, different rotors for different powders.
F. Guffey
You can overcomplicate this a bit. I agree with F Guffey. Reading is much more important than just about anything else.
I have a bunch of scales, and my $28 cheapie one has been checked against my very expensive ones and it is just about dead on every time. If it were me, I would use any halfway decent scale and then perfect my technique with the dippers until you get it so you can load consistently.
I usually load fairly lightweight pistol loads, and I have done quite well with tippers. For anything rifle related, I usually use either a charge master or a powder thrower that gives me more accuracy when I am near hotter loads.
The simple Lee powder scale or a simple electronic scale will give you a lot more accuracy and becoming consistent with the dippers. I probably wouldn't load with just the dipper alone, until I had at least checked it through your four times.
I have a bunch of scales, and my $28 cheapie one has been checked against my very expensive ones and it is just about dead on every time. If it were me, I would use any halfway decent scale and then perfect my technique with the dippers until you get it so you can load consistently.
I usually load fairly lightweight pistol loads, and I have done quite well with tippers. For anything rifle related, I usually use either a charge master or a powder thrower that gives me more accuracy when I am near hotter loads.
The simple Lee powder scale or a simple electronic scale will give you a lot more accuracy and becoming consistent with the dippers. I probably wouldn't load with just the dipper alone, until I had at least checked it through your four times.
I have almost all LEE equipment, but have other brands also. The LEE scale is long gone. The LEE charts for the dippers and the Pro Disc are only estimates at the time they were tested. Some powders will match very close others are so far off it's an accident waiting to happen.
They all measure by VOLUME, until you know what that volume of YOUR powder WEIGHS you are shooting in the dark.
Read other manuals like Speer, Lyman, Hornady, The ABC's of reloading. Lee has some good information but all the load data is just complied from somewhere else. Lee did not do the tests.
Balance Beams have a lifetime warranty, electronic cheapos will die and only have 1 yr at the most. Some check weights are needed also.
They all measure by VOLUME, until you know what that volume of YOUR powder WEIGHS you are shooting in the dark.
Read other manuals like Speer, Lyman, Hornady, The ABC's of reloading. Lee has some good information but all the load data is just complied from somewhere else. Lee did not do the tests.
Balance Beams have a lifetime warranty, electronic cheapos will die and only have 1 yr at the most. Some check weights are needed also.
wgaynor
Member
I use Lee Dippers, but as mentioned by others above, I use them to put powder in the pan so I can weigh them. Time consuming? Yes, but when I pull that trigger, I lessen the risk of losing a body part.
The cheap electronic scale that I have is by MTM. I'm not sure if it is a year old yet or not. The little plastic dish that comes with it weighs 44.1 grains. I use that as one simple way to check its accuracy. Everyone of these that I have ever seen also came with something like a 50 g weight as a check weight.
I just like having a check weight that is somewhere in the range that I'm going to be measuring. You could also measure a few bullets, note their weight, and keep them with your scale.
The dippers are certainly not As accurate as measuring each charge. However I almost always load on the light side, and a pistol charge nominally four grains that is half a grain high or low in my particular caliber isn't going to do any damage either way. You just have to be smart enough not to load it close enough to maximum that you might actually go over it!
Again, I use perfect powder and auto disk for most of my calipers, and I actually individually weigh some of my precision loads. But I'm not afraid to make up some Mosin-Nagant cartridges with my carefully planned out Lee dipper and classic (whackamole) set up.
There is a video on YouTube that shows people trying to destroy a Mosin-Nagant with insane charges. They finally succeed, by compressing a pistol powder load into the case! Please don't try that yourself. But when I am loading 42 grains of varget, quite a few grains below maximum, I'm not going to get worried by being up or down by one grain. By contrast, if I want a very accurate cartridge, I will keep it within .1 grains on a charge master.
I just like having a check weight that is somewhere in the range that I'm going to be measuring. You could also measure a few bullets, note their weight, and keep them with your scale.
The dippers are certainly not As accurate as measuring each charge. However I almost always load on the light side, and a pistol charge nominally four grains that is half a grain high or low in my particular caliber isn't going to do any damage either way. You just have to be smart enough not to load it close enough to maximum that you might actually go over it!
Again, I use perfect powder and auto disk for most of my calipers, and I actually individually weigh some of my precision loads. But I'm not afraid to make up some Mosin-Nagant cartridges with my carefully planned out Lee dipper and classic (whackamole) set up.
There is a video on YouTube that shows people trying to destroy a Mosin-Nagant with insane charges. They finally succeed, by compressing a pistol powder load into the case! Please don't try that yourself. But when I am loading 42 grains of varget, quite a few grains below maximum, I'm not going to get worried by being up or down by one grain. By contrast, if I want a very accurate cartridge, I will keep it within .1 grains on a charge master.
gamestalker
member
I also have slide charts, and have read modern reloading by: R. Lee, very good information contained. And if memory serves me correctly, I do believe he also suggests verifying charges on a scale too. And doing it exactly as he instructs with the business cards, and after having verified the scooped weight, one can safely use those. They aren't designed to produce spot on charges that will be as accurate as what one gets using a beam scale, that's a given. But they will get it done if properly used.
Same thing with my Mec powder bushing's, I verify the charges on a scale. And when a a bushing just won't get me what I want, such as something that falls between say a # 35 and a #36, I improvise by shimming the bushing wall.
Reloading is safe and fun if you just use a little common sense. Get careless or complacent, and it can get you hurt, or worse.
GS
Same thing with my Mec powder bushing's, I verify the charges on a scale. And when a a bushing just won't get me what I want, such as something that falls between say a # 35 and a #36, I improvise by shimming the bushing wall.
Reloading is safe and fun if you just use a little common sense. Get careless or complacent, and it can get you hurt, or worse.
GS
His instructions, it was not his business card, at the time he was having a light moment, he was asked to develop loads, he used his dippers with no regard to scales. When he returned to ‘the shop’ he realized ‘they’ wanted the loads in grains. It was then he weighed the scooped loads for starting loads, and used the pyramid cone of powder above the dipper for maximum.
Depends on who is reading the book, I got the feeling the joker was on the customer that wanted the data in grains. He also said they, the man with the business card and Mr. Lee work late into the evening to complete the data, with just one firing.
F. Guffey
Depends on who is reading the book, I got the feeling the joker was on the customer that wanted the data in grains. He also said they, the man with the business card and Mr. Lee work late into the evening to complete the data, with just one firing.
F. Guffey
eastbank
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i use the lee dippers for loading small lots of target ammo, i use the dipper close to what powder i want to use and use a electric scale by zeroing the scale and dipping the powder and putting it in the scale pan and then bring the charge to dead nuts by dribbeling the last grain or two with my fingers. i charge 50 cases at a time and then seat the bullets. for large lots of rifle shooting ammo i use ball powders with a rcbs target powder dispenser. eastbank.
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