H4895 in M96!

[andym79]

Hi guys,

I have had limited success using H4227 and H4198 in my Swedish Mauser. I prefer to fill up as much of a case as i can (mainly to avoid a double charge). I am looking for a reduced load that will fill enough of the case to make a double charge alost impossible, i.e. comes up to the top or overflows!

My reloading manual doesn't list it for 140 grain cast but, it is listed for a 140 grain jacketed projectile and Hodgdon write this

"H4895 powder was chosen because it is the slowest burning propellant that ignites uniformly in reduced charges. For years H4895 has been the top choice of cast bullet shooters. For this type of shooting, loads are reduced even more than the hunting loads listed here. To create this type of target and plinking loads, we recommend our 60% rule with H4895: Refer
to our latest reloading manual or the Reloading Data Center found on the website; take the maximum H4895 charge listed for any given cartridge and multiply it by 60%. The shooter can create a 1500 to 2100 f/s load, depending on the bullet weight shown. This works ONLY where H4895 is listed. DO NOT use H4895 in a cartridge where it has not been shown."

As the maximum load listed for H4895 is 36 grains; 60% is 22 grains, to avoid the possibility of a double charge 24 grains.

What do you guys think?

Is anyone using a load like that?

Thanks

 

[jwrowland77]

I've used a reduced recoil load back when I was getting my daughter used to shooting rifles. It worked great for me and her.

She found the 60% start was too low, so I just walked it up from there until I found her threshold.

It wasn't position sensitive. I didn't do any of that tilt the gun up, and everything shot great.

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

6.5x55 is very mild, especially out of a heavy M96. lots of folks seem to have good luck with RL22 and my M96 likes it as well.

 

[MtnCreek]

I use a H4895 charge that's a couple grains below Hodgdon's start charge with 140gr SMK's. It's very mild and shoots very good.

 

[atblis]

I've loaded Trail Boss in a M96. The accuracy was actually pretty darn good (like 1 MOA at 100 yards). Fun for plinking, but too reduced for hunting.

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

 

[andym79]

atblis

I've loaded Trail Boss in a M96. The accuracy was actually pretty darn good (like 1 MOA at 100 yards). Fun for plinking, but too reduced for hunting.

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

I have used Trail Boss for this cartridge (I only got around 3 MOA at 100 yards) and others with more success.

I should have outlined at the beginning, I am looking to shoot this Swedish Mauser accurately out to 300 yards and I want to do it with cast (economics)!

The requirements:

1) Accurate (3 MOA) out to 300 yards.

2) Almost impossible to double charge so 23 grains or more!

3) Preferably minimal leading of the bore.

4) Preferably without fillers, gas check separation has got me paranoid enough already!

Below is a 10 shot group, I shot this morning; disregard the 2 40 cal holes.

This is what I getting out of the M96 at around 1900 fps, 140 grain, gas checked, number 2 alloy, using H4198, OAL 3.025" without a filler! Looking at those ten shots,this load won't get me out to 200 accurately and I trying for 300.

I have put around 300 shots down the barrel using various loads of Trail boss, H4227 and H4198. I have also tried different OALs and mild through to hard crimps. That's why I asked about H4895, generally from my experience more of a slower powder yields better results out a 300! I guess the 6.5X55 is a hard cartridge to load for cast. The 303 or 30-06 probably would have been a better choice.

Any help appreciated.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If you want to full the case yet still shoot reduced loads try AA5744 or SR4759...

I'n sure either will give you exactly what you're looking for.

 

[andym79]

ArchAngelCD If you want to full the case yet still shoot reduced loads try AA5744 or SR4759...

I'n sure either will give you exactly what you're looking for.

AA, SR and IMR powders are not available here in Aus, unless you get import permits

We have Hs and Alliant, though the later are usually of the fast variety!

According to my calculations it would take around 40 grains of 4759 to fill a case!

 

[andym79]

Has anyone had success with more traditional cast powders such as

Red Dot 8-9 grains
Green Dot 8-9 grains

I was trying to find a >50% fill, but due to the reasonably large case size, and the insanely fast twist of the M96, I don't think I can achieve it without jacketed projectiles. So if the dots hit the mark, I might give them a try!

 

[gibble888]

I use reduced h4895 loads in my 30-06 and as stated the 60% reduction is very mild but it gives much room to find the best velocity for your cast bullets. H4895 is my favorite powder, versatile and accurate in my hunting loads anyway. Ive found its good to try different primers to find the best accuracy in a reduced load.

 

[41 Mag]

but due to the reasonably large case size, and the insanely fast twist of the M96,

What you have above is about the jest of it with cast bullets. There are plenty who use a case full of some of the slowest powders, even surplus powders that are meant for the 50 cal or 20mm loads, who are simply looking for accurate loads to 50 through 100yds. Most aren't trying to stretch them out quite as far as 300.

Everyone has a purpose for a specific load or rifle which I am sure you do as well. I'm just not sure your going to get there with the lowest loads.

There are several pages of post regarding the use of lead bullets in the 6.5x55 and most end up getting locked down due to the ensuing arguments. I'm sure if you do a search over on Castboolits you will find several loads which may or may not work as well as one of the multi paged threads to which I refer.

I have two different molds for mine and have yet to run the first lead bullet down the barrel of it yet. I just haven't gotten to the rifles just yet, I'm having too much fun with my revolvers.

 

[andym79]

Well once I got chance, and the Lever fever didn't have me in its grasp (I find it hard to want to shoot bolts when I have such beautiful levers that beg to be shot); I finally after weeks of threatening to, took the Mauser out again and shot 2 10 shoot groups at 100 yards. The load was H4198 15 grains and 16 grains, the 15 grain load was the winner by around 1/2"!

I was happy with the load for 100 yard shooting (2 1/2" 10 shot group), it certainly would be in the kill zone for medium sized game!


I still don't think this load is 3 MOA compatible at 300 yards! But next time I go to the range with the M96 I am going to take it out to 200 and see what I get!

 

[GooseGestapo]

Getting cast bullets to shoot is more of an art than science.
I think that you need to stay with H4895. I've used it with good results in numerous cartridges for just what you're trying to do and it's excellent.

Expect to see accuracy fall off past ~2,100fps. With H4895, I expect that you'll find the accuracy your looking for, but the powder probably isn't your limitation.

It's going to be the loading technique, bullet alloy, lube, mold design, and sizing diameter.
Finally, we get around to the rifle. You'll need a good barrel. Simply put, many used milsurp bolt action rifles have badly worn bores. For good cast bullet accuracy, you'll need a good throat and thats where most of the guns will have significant erosion. Your rifle just may be not up to the task. Mike Venturino of "Handloader" magazine has done a lot of what you're trying to do. He often has multiple examples of the same rifle, and one or two will shoot rings around the rest. An example is an M1 Garand that I inherited from my older brother. It's a "National Match" set up (not orginally, though), and is a sub-2moa target rifle with match grade ammo. Likewise, with a 200gr RNGC cast bullet over 38.5gr of H4895 it will also do 2moa at 100yds... It is a joy and thrill to shoot as it has a spectacular trigger and runs like a swiss watch. Smooth as silk. Mikes M1 is a "beater" and won't often shoot 3-4moa with match grade target ammo. Not to mention cast bullets....

I've got a number of rifles that will shoot cast bullets incredibly well. However, they are very accurate with j-bullets too. My efforts through the years with cast bullets has been directed towards hunting bullets and 2-3moa at 100yds is sufficient but expansion is a must, so alloys used have run towards the soft end of the spectrum. My favorite cast bullet guns are two Marlin .338ME's. Either will shoot 1.5moa @ 100yds with a Lee 220gr RNGC .339" mould I have. I use a Lee Universal neck-expander and .339" Lyman sizer die in my ancient Lyman 450 lubricator/sizer. Alloy is w/w metal with 2oz/10lbs of 95/5 lead-free solder added (95% tin, 55 antimony). Bullets are air-cooled and lubed with SPG lube. Over same 38.5gr of H4895 or 40.0gr of RL15 they run ~2,100fps. Haven't gotten around to shooting a deer with them, however... Too many guns, not enough time or freezer space...

I'd spend some time over at www.cast-boolits.com. I'm member over there too.
Most of my cast boolit shooting is with handguns and I've shot some NRA-PPC records with my boolits, so I've been at it while. I suspect that you may need to try some different moulds and alloys, probably something like a heat-treated w/w alloy or even linotype to stand the twist rate of the Swede. Often times, two different moulds of exactly the same design/model will perform very differently due to the cutter they are cut with.... I've sent molds back to the mfg's and gotten another in exchange that changed my opinion of the mould/maker! I had a bad mould in a Lyman 150gr .358" SWC back in the early '80's. I sent it back to Lyman and they sent me another mould. BIG difference! Although it took a close look to tell the difference... (First one appeared to have been cut with a sharpened and essentially worn-out cherry..It was undersize and out of round. New one was perfect, and I still have it. I don't use it much however as it's a 2-cavity and when I'm shooting/practicing for competition, I need x,xxx's of bullets, so I use four or six cavity molds.

Good luck and let us know if you find what you're looking for!