Half cock Bersa .380 Thunder?

[38snapcaps]

I have recently acquired this pistol for legal concealed carry. As I was familiarizing myself with the controls I noticed the hammer can be pulled back slightly and it clicks in place. A further pull results in a normal cocking.

I would like to carry with one in the pipe and the safety off for quick double action firing, but I'm not so sure about the safety aspect of the hammer being so close to the firing pin when its fully down. It seems better when I do that "half cock".

Are there any experienced Bersa owners here that could give me some advice?

 

[dfariswheel]

It's been a long time since I've been inside a Bersa, but DO NOT attempt to carry it on "half cock".
As in most modern autos, "half cock" is actually an interceptor notch. It's sole purpose is to catch the hammer if it slips while being cocked. Without the interceptor notch a slip would allow the hammer to strike the firing pin and fire a round.

Like all modern autos, the Bersa has an inertial firing pin. That is, the pin is shorter than it's tunnel in the slide. In order for the pin to strike the primer, it must be driven forward with enough force to strike the primer and fire it.

The proper way to carry the gun with the hammer down, is ALL THE WAY DOWN. With the hammer resting in it's full down, uncocked mode, the gun would have to be dropped on the muzzle with a considerable amount of force to fire it.

If the hammer is in a "half cock" position, dropping the gun or striking the hammer could shear the hammer or sear engagement and the gun would likely fire.

 

[bpisler]

dfariswheel,that good advance there's no reason to carry like that.I carried a bersa with the hammer down and safety off for a couple of years with no problems,nice pistol for the money BTW.

 

[benEzra]

I'm not sure about the newest Bersas, but the model 83/383 firing pin block is only activated when the safety is ON, if I understand correctly. (Ditto with older Walther PPKs, I think.) In other words, with the safety ON, the gun is completely drop safe, but if the safety is OFF, dropping it on the hammer could cause a discharge (i.e., if it falls out of your holster when you are going to the rest room, you could get shot with your own gun). I think Massad Ayoob even cited an example one time of a man who accidentally dropped his off-safe Walther PPK on a hard surface and it went off, wounding his wife.

With practice, the Bersa/Walther-style thumb safety can be flicked off so quickly during the draw that carrying with the safety off doesn't give you much of a speed advantage. I would STRONGLY recommend carrying with the safety on with these guns.

Guns with passive firing pin blocks (such as S&W 3rd-gen autos, SIGs, etc.) are drop-safe even with the safety off.

bE

 

[38snapcaps]

I looked my Bersa over real careful last night and its true the block rotates into position as the safety is applied. The firing pin is spring loaded, unlike a Makarov which I used to have, and it seems like it would take a pretty good smack to go forward enough to hit the cartridge primer, as in the hammer flying forward from a full cock position.

But the thought of it falling on the floor and having even the remotest chance of discharging does give me pause. I guess I'd better practice the draw while taking off the safety.

 

[kalibear45]

I have a Walther PPK and I feel comfortable with it hammer down, safety off ~ so your 1st shot would be double action

 

[benEzra]

I have a Walther PPK and I feel comfortable with it hammer down, safety off ~ so your 1st shot would be double action

I carry an S&W 3913 in just that mode--hammer down, safety off. But the 3913 is completely drop safe with the safety off.

With a Bersa/PPK, just be DARN sure never to drop it with the safety off. I have dropped my CCW pistol (back then, a PPK-pattern .380) exactly once, many years ago, when the clip-on paddle holster (with pistol firmly strapped in) fell off my belt as I was getting undressed at home. It landed on a hard floor, directly on the hammer, with the barrel pointing up (probably in my general direction). But the safety was ON, and the hammer could not reach the firing pin. Had the safety been off, the gun could conceivably have fired. Not necessarily *would* have, but it's not a risk I choose to run.

bE

 

[Dave R]

Why carry it hammer-down, safety off?

With only the tiniest bit of training, you can flick the safety off as you draw, and it adds zero time to getting the first shot off.

With the safety on and the hammer down, the hammer block prevents the hammer from contacting the firing pin. That's why it was designed to be carried that way.

Draw/flick and fire is just as fast as draw/fire.

 

[Kahr carrier]

I would use the safety.

 

[Handy]

Never carry a gun in the half cock notch. Some weapons use a hammer blocking arm, but that is a different beast.

Inertial firing pins: before passive firing pin safeties came to be, inertial firing pins kept everyone safe. They still do, as 90% of all 1911s have inertial firing pins and the safety doesn't engage the firing pin in any way.

The danger of no pin block is not dropping on the hammer. With a muzzle up strike, the firing pin is being driven down against the hammer, not the other way around. But there is no special protection (save the strength of the firing pin spring) against muzzle down strikes. This is where most of the drop firings have occurred. But it seems like most of the drop fires I've ever heard of were Walther PP models.

The other thing to consider is that there are many, many pistols with no firing pin safety of any kind, yet you don't hear about this type of accident very often. In fact, many of them passed CA's extensive drop tests (basic 1911s, CZ-75 SA, Hi-Power clones, Ruger Mk II, etc.)

Your Bersa should be safe enough with the safety off, hammer down. Safety on is even better, just slower. But inertial firing pins are VERY safe and should not be regarded with too much suspicion.

Here's the Cali. list:
http://justice.hdcdojnet.state.ca.u...=list&_UserReference=8585F0EB272681823E394F8C

 

[tbeb]

The safest carry mode, and the one I recommend to you, is with a round in the chamber and hammer all the way down and safety on.

If you feel comfortable with the safety off then go for it. Just understand that you can conceivably experience an accidental discharge if you drop the pistol.

 

[Handy]

The SAFEST carry mode is condition 3, chamber empty.

Or is there a 4, mag out?