Hand Weapon for Untrained Person

[Puncha]

If we assume that guns are not available, pepper spray or other aerosol devices are illegal and eletro-stun devices are for LEO use only, what weapon would be best suited for an UNTRAINED person to use for self defense in:

a) An enclosed space like a normal sized bedroom or private office room.
b) An open space like a parking lot.

Please assume that the person in question is of short height, 5'5" - 5'9" and of fair physical strength (able to bench 100lbs).

 

[spd1303]

paintball gun

 

[JShirley]

A large flashlight.

But really, there is no substitute for training. Even if you don't go train with a school (preferable), there's no reason anyone can't practice a few simple moves at home, until they're fast and second nature.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Cane?

Is there anything that would make a cane or walking stick inappropriate?

A cane affords distance, and can certainly be effective for strikes.

In close quarters, I would think some training would be appropriate.

 

[mfcmb]

A telescoping metal baton, a baseball bat, an approx 24" long piece of 3/4 galvanized steel water pipe. In short a club. A club that's short enough to be manageable in a small space, heavy enough to hurt, light enough to manage. Most people without any particular training can club someone with a reasonable chance of being effective.

 

[Mp7]

Stick.

Wether it´s a cane, a heavy maglite, a 2ft piece of steel-pipe
or a simple piece of wood.

If you can hit, thrust and lever with it ... select the one
you feel most comfy with.

A bit of training ... or at least thinking about
how you´d use it .. is key though.

1st Brain
then tool.


i have a mini Louisville slugger behind my door....
( and too many knives )

 

[ChaoSS]

You didn't rule out knives. There are several options, you can carry a small knife with you at all times, assuming that it is not illegal. A good pocket knife, 3 inches long, is a good weapon when out and about. A cane is good too. It's all about what you are willing to carry on you.

At home, go with a bigger knife, like a small sword even. Keep it somewhere handy, you don't have to carry it around everywhere.

Some people say you need training to use a knife. Bollocks, I say, pointy end goes in the bad guy. Seriously, though, a knife is a lethal weapon, carry it if and only if you are prepared to kill someone. It isn't a weapon to disarm and or disable someone, it is a weapon you use with the intent to spill all of someone's blood. It isn't something you use lightly, and it isn't something you should ever leave home without.

 

[bikerdoc]

a) An enclosed space like a normal sized bedroom or private office room.
b) An open space like a parking lot.

Since your question is posed for the untrained let us start with,
calling that person a victim!

With props to others, mindset, skill set, tool set, is the answer. in other words think, plan, act.
Since you have already identified three potential areas of danger, your first step is to develop a mindset not to be a victim. Now develop a situational awareness for these areas, especially the parking lot. (I take a indirect aproach to my vehicle and circle back from behind)

To give credit to another member, if you are fighting in your bedroom or office your layered defense has failed or does not exist.

The best fight is the one you avoid by planing (mindset), trainining (skill set),
and if needed tool set (weapon).

Thats my cranky old man way of saying your best weapon is your brain backed up by a cane.

 

[Dimis]

My friend from Louisville comes to mind i think his last name was Slugger

 

[ChristopherG]

A spear. E.g.,

http://www.coldsteel.com/aswishsh.html

 

[22-rimfire]

Aluminum baseball bat (a short one), walking stick (stiff one), large mag light, cattle prod, ammonia in a pump up sprayer, knives, machete, or a combination of these.

 

[nalioth]

Bottle opener, anyone?

 

[SeekHer]

Can you use bear spray in your country? Not MACE or other LEO based sprays but outdoors bear spray...

The problem with collapsible batons is that lots of countries have outlawed them for non LEO/military use...

The problem with knives is that if the other person has one then the first rule of knifefighting comes into effect and that is YOU WILL BE CUT! The other factor is the legal one, as the laws in lots of the S.W. Asian area you can't carry knives at all or only under a certain length excluding for work purposes...

The same applies to baseball bats, iron pipes (unless found there) for defense in a public place but OK at home...

spd1303 -- What the Hell are you going to do with a paintball gun--tie dye his shirt?

ChristopherG -- I really can't see the OP walking to his car in the deserted parking lot carrying a spear...If the police just happened to come by, he'd probably get thrown into the slammer...For home defense, possibly if legal, but you're wielding a 7'/2.13M long quite unmanageable pointy thing in a confined space...The same would apply to swords!

The only thing that is benign, non threatening, easily carried is a cane--and not a sword cane as they're really banned just about everywhere...I had one of oak that came to my hip that had a pointed brass ferrule at the bottom covered with a rubber walker and a very heavy brass coated steel knob at the top...what made it deadly was the piece of steel that ran from the knob to the ferrule...

There are lots of cane sites to browse through...

Like bikerdoc said, the best weapon is your brain and hopefully being able to extricate yourself--or better still never getting into--the situation...

We here in Canada are basically in the same situation as you are...

 

[ChristopherG]

No, of course, a spear has its problems as far as social acceptance and concealability, but the OP didn't mention such concerns-- and I naturally tend to be a literalist and operate in a la-la land of hypotheticals ;-)

I'd still take a short spear in a bedroom though, over a cane or baseball bat or anything else not already excluded by the OP. Get the 7' version and start chopping until you have the length that will work in the environment you need to work in.

In a parking lot, I guess we should read that it has to be carried unobtrusively on one's person. For an untrained person, I don't know that there's a tool that's likelier to help than be taken away by a determined attacker.

 

[middy]

Cane.

 

[CWL]

A big Chinese "chopper" knife for indoors.

Outside: flashlight, cane, umbrella with heavy grip, roll of coins.

 

[JShirley]

A MiniMag 3-cell is long enough to get some good velocity and impact if swung. It's small enough to fit into a decent sized purse.

However, I don't know that it's small enough for most men to have on their person most of the time, if they work in an office environment...

 

[glistam]

I think the big issue we're getting hung up on this "Untrained." What's that mean? Absolutely no martial skill whatsoever? I hope not, because there's no weapon that fixes that problem.

Some people have a natural talent or inclination for using certain weapons. Some people can learn by watching. Sometimes our occupations or hobbies give us muscle movements or skills that are applicable martially. Some people have good reflexes. You don't have to have formal, ritualized training to do some damage. And there is no perfect weapon for everyone. Give us some feedback on our comments so far, Puncha.

 

[theotherwaldo]

What a silly question.

I've got over 100 edged weapons, a similar number of projectile weapons, a few dozen clubs, and a number of chemical spray devices in my small home. And that's not counting what's in the kitchen.

My work place has four swords, a battle axe, ten knives that I know of, a tee-ball bat, two canes, several dangerous-looking umbrellas, and a number of potential impromptu weapons. I'm not counting co-workers with CC permits.

And that's just in the children's department.

 

[ChaoSS]

In a parking lot, I guess we should read that it has to be carried unobtrusively on one's person. For an untrained person, I don't know that there's a tool that's likelier to help than be taken away by a determined attacker.

You know, I'm quite tired of that old, ridiculous saying. I can't count the number of times I've heard people claim that a knife in the hands of an untrained user is more likely to get taken away and used against you. What a load of utter crock.

If someone has the talent to take a knife away from me before I can cut him up, then it doesn't really matter if he takes a knife from me, because he obviously has such prodigious skill that he could kill me or inflict any amount of damage on me that he wishes.

A person determined to defend themselves will not lose their weapon so easily, and I'm tired of people perpetrating that asinine myth.

 

[glistam]

You know, I'm quite tired of that old, ridiculous saying. I can't count the number of times I've heard people claim that a knife in the hands of an untrained user is more likely to get taken away and used against you. What a load of utter crock.

If someone has the talent to take a knife away from me before I can cut him up, then it doesn't really matter if he takes a knife from me, because he obviously has such prodigious skill that he could kill me or inflict any amount of damage on me that he wishes.

A person determined to defend themselves will not lose their weapon so easily, and I'm tired of people perpetrating that asinine myth.

Here Here. Watch the last episode of Criminal Minds on CBS to see what an untrained, highly impaired person can do with a knife to 6 different people, including several who are directly trying to take the knife away.

These are the same dolts who think carrying a weapon increases the likelihood of an attack. Which is just another version of the superstitions that preparation for a possible future event causes it to happen.:banghead:

 

[highorder]

A thought on knives; I'll choose a club over a knife any day if only to avoid being bathed in the warm, HIV (or worse) infected blood of my attacker. Further, I don't want to get close enough to make a 1", 3" or 9" blade effective. Bloodborne pathogens are no joke.

I'll stick with a cane.

 

[ChristopherG]

A difference of opinion has obviously arisen. Let's please discuss it without calling one another dolts, if possible.

I think that, generally, a weapon is better suited to persons without significant combat training and experience the farther it keeps them from their opponent. The unhesitating aggression that the defensive use of a close quarters weapon like a knife requires is trained out of most people pretty thoroughly in this modern world of ours. I think there's a big gap between the willingness to put a knife in the pocket or on the belt and the preparedness to throw the switch into kill mode at a moment's notice.

 

[ChaoSS]

Here Here. Watch the last episode of Criminal Minds on CBS to see what an untrained, highly impaired person can do with a knife to 6 different people, including several who are directly trying to take the knife away.

The main difference between him and most people with a knife is willingness to stab someone. If you are waving your knife around, trying everything to avoid having to stick it in someone, then yes, you may well end up with someone taking your knife away. But if you, like him, are willing to stick the pointy end in the bad guy, it would take a highly trained martial artist to stop you from doing so or to take your knife away from you.

A thought on knives; I'll choose a club over a knife any day if only to avoid being bathed in the warm, HIV (or worse) infected blood of my attacker. Further, I don't want to get close enough to make a 1", 3" or 9" blade effective. Bloodborne pathogens are no joke.

I'll stick with a cane

That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is that a small knife can cause as much damage as a gun shot (although from a much closer range) while a cane can be a slow and clumsy weapon. In the home, where you could carry a proper sized weapon, I'd take a short sword over a cane or staff any day.

 

[ChaoSS]

A difference of opinion has obviously arisen. Let's please discuss it without calling one another dolts, if possible.

I think that, generally, a weapon is better suited to persons without significant combat training and experience the farther it keeps them from their opponent. The unhesitating aggression that the defensive use of a close quarters weapon like a knife requires is trained out of most people pretty thoroughly in this modern world of ours. I think there's a big gap between the willingness to put a knife in the pocket or on the belt and the preparedness to throw the switch into kill mode at a moment's notice.

On hand, yes. On the other hand, long range weapons are often not suited to carrying on a regular basis. Canes are perhaps the only exception to this.

Consider also the fact that a person, armed with, say, a cane, who is unwilling to switch into kill mode, may be no better off. A person with a cane, determined to bash someone's head in, is a formidable opponent. A person with a cane, unwilling to hit hard enough to do what is needed, who flails his cane about, hoping to scare his opponent off, or hits, but not hard enough to put someone down, will see the cane taken away from them, or at least, their opponent will close quickly to a range where the cane is no longer effective.

Self defense is a state of mind. If you can not do what is necessary to defend yourself, if you are unwilling to see someone die at your hands if necessary, then leave the weapons at home, give up your wallet and watch when asked for them, and hope you don't end up faced by someone who really wants to kill you. Either you do what is needed to defend yourself, or you do everything you can to appease your attacker. Anything else is foolish.