Hangfire on 454 Casull; Advice Requested

[Rule3]

I just loaded my first rounds ever and took them to the range this week. I wanted to create low recoil range rounds for my 454 Casull pistols so that I could actually practice firing more than 20-30 rounds in a range session before I wear myself out.

I loaded 454 Casull Magnum with the following at 5 different powder loads based on Freedom Arms load data:

Primer: CCI Small Rifle, Magnum
Bullet: 255 gr Hi Tek MBC, Cowboy #9, SWC, .452 diameter
Powder: 231, at 8.5 g, 9.5, 10.5, 11.5, 12.5


The 454 Casull is a large case, and there is a lot of room in that case with only 8.5 gr of powder. Heck, there's a lot of room with 12.5 gr of powder.

Do you think my hangfire was caused solely by the low amount of powder?
FWIW, I shot my best group from the rest out of the 83 with 11.5 gr of 231. And, offhand, perceived recoil was less than a 44 magnum out of a 6.5" N-frame; low enough to shoot all day.

YES!
Bunny fart load in a BIG case!

What other powders do you have?

No sense in practicing shooting a such a potent caliber with powder charge more for a 45 Colt,

https://freedomarms.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/454-Loading-Data.pdf

 

[Alaskamike]

I know everyone is getting wrapped around the axle about using 231 powder in a 454 Casull case, but the issue here is your use of spray lube inside the case.

Quit spraying your cases with lube and your hangfire issue will go away.

 

[Palladan44]

Huge case, and very low amount of powder.
Position sensitivity may be going on. I'd find another powder or published recipe and the problem should go away. Ditch that pronto!!

 

[Bill M.]

Buying the Colt cylinder just might be the best move you could make here. And by far the most satisfying.

 

[mkl]

My guess is a small amount of a hard to ignite (ball powder) inside of a large case. Incomplete burn means erratic ignition pressures and possible stuck bullets.

Try a flake powder (Unique or similar) for low pressure loads so as to ensure complete ignition.

 

[Alaskamike]

231 isn't hard to ignite by any means.

I've used relatively small charges of 231 in large cases like .45 colt and .44 mag with no issues at all.

I'll say it again--I think the issue here is that the OP hosed down his cases with Hornady One Shot just prior to loading.

If you contaminate your powder with spray lube, you're going to have issues like hangfires or squibs, period.

This has *nothing* to do with 231 in a large case.

 

[lordpaxman]

https://www.hornady.com/reloading/case-care/lubes-and-cleaners/case-lubes

ONE SHOT® CASE LUBE
One Shot® Case Lube with DynaGlide Plus® technology is a micro-penetrating high pressure dry film. It contains no petroleum, teflon or other synthetic silicone so it will not contaminate powder or primers.

Hopefully the OP used the one shot lube, and not the one shot cleaner/lube. The website doesn’t mention if the cleaner/lube would be an issue in reloading, but I wouldn’t try or recommend it.

I’ve used one shot lube for years in reloading 9/40/45 on a progressive, sprayed all over and in cases as they were in a box and randomly oriented, and haven’t experienced any problem with contamination of primer or powder.

To the OP: any chance there might have been some moisture in the case, or the brass was cold and then brought inside and loaded? What kind of crimp did you have on these? I’ve never had an issue igniting 231, there may have been some really bad SDs but no hangfires.

 

[243winxb]

ONE SHOT® CASE LUBE

Google-

n-Hexane is a chemical made from crude oil. Pure n-Hexane is a colorless liquid with a slightly disagreeable odor. It is highly flammable, and its vapors can be explosive.

Looks like DynaGlide® PLUS TOOL & SURFACE (AEROSOL) is about the same thing?

 

[lordpaxman]

@243winxb , The quote came from the Hornady’s website. If you’re interested in debating with them what’s in their product or marketing literature, have at it. My personal experience over quite a few years with one shot lube is it doesn’t cause any problems with reloaded ammunition.

 

[mavracer]

I know everyone is getting wrapped around the axle about using 231 powder in a 454 Casull case, but the issue here is your use of spray lube inside the case.

Quit spraying your cases with lube and your hangfire issue will go away.

Nope I've been using Hornady One Shot since it was introduced, spraying loose rounds in a 2qt Tupperware container and have shot at least 16# of 231 and HP38 thru various 9mm, 10mm, 38/357 and 45 ACP without issue. The problem is too little powder too far away from the primer.
Switch to a bulky flake powder like bullseye or unique

 

[Mark_Mark]

I had hangfire and powder not lighting with my .460 and .454 loads on a SW 460V. Solution was a heavy crimped. Have not had a problem since

 

[Rule3]

I know everyone is getting wrapped around the axle about using 231 powder in a 454 Casull case, but the issue here is your use of spray lube inside the case.

Quit spraying your cases with lube and your hangfire issue will go away.

No, it's not the "lube" it is insufficient powder in such a large case, lube may be and issue if it is still wet when the powder was dropped causing it to clump or stick, he said he got the data from FA but they used a different bullet. It May work if the revolver is held up and slowly lowered to shooting position, They use 8.5 gr W231 for both a 260 and a 300 JFP which is a different animal than a MBC coated lead
Heck who knows how the powder was even measured or weighed??

It is a Magnum cartridge and calls for magnum powder and charges,
Mouse fart or bunny fart surprised that it wasn't a full squib and stuck in the barrel.

 

[Mark_Mark]

CRIMP = Problem Solved!

Old timers reloaders at my old club told me so, and it WORKED! try this 1st OP guy

and bring a nice brass rod incase

 

[Mark_Mark]

Thank you murf.

The unburned powder is slightly brownish or, maybe, some extra iridescence on the dark grey 231. But there are full flakes of powder in the cylinder and around the back of the barrel.

I had that exact SAME problem

Heavy Crimp Sloved it! and get ready for the full powder burn concussion of the .454 Bear Killer

Don’t believe me, how about handloader magazine. Look at that crimp! SOLID

https://www.handloadermagazine.com/from-the-hip-9

 

[Mark_Mark]

I just loaded my first rounds ever and took them to the range this week. I wanted to create low recoil range rounds for my 454 Casull pistols so that I could actually practice firing more than 20-30 rounds in a range session before I wear myself out.

I loaded 454 Casull Magnum with the following at 5 different powder loads based on Freedom Arms load data:

Primer: CCI Small Rifle, Magnum
Bullet: 255 gr Hi Tek MBC, Cowboy #9, SWC, .452 diameter
Powder: 231, at 8.5 g, 9.5, 10.5, 11.5, 12.5

I lubed the cases with a spray on both sides with Hornady One Shot, and then loaded the rounds.

I fired the ammunition through a 6" Freedom Arms Model 83, and a 2.5" Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan.

I experienced hangfires on roughly 20% of the 8.5 gr loads, and 10% of the 9.5 gr loads. The hangfire delay was always less than a second. The hangfire resulted in extremely low recoil. Perceived recoil was less than a 38 special out of an N-frame revolver. A hangfire out of the Ruger resulted in the bullet getting stuck in the barrel. The Ruger also had a lot of unburnt powder. I was only able to fire 3 8.5 gr loads out of the Ruger before the bullet became stuck.

I suspect the tighter tolerances between the cylinder and frame on the Model 83 helped propel the bullets out of the pistol with the low compression hangfire, and the looser tolerance on the Ruger resulted in the bullet getting lodged in this barrel.

The 454 Casull is a large case, and there is a lot of room in that case with only 8.5 gr of powder. Heck, there's a lot of room with 12.5 gr of powder.

Do you think my hangfire was caused solely by the low amount of powder? Could the hangfires have been partially caused by lube interacting with the powder? Do you think a faster burning, but still low recoil and FA recommended powder, such as Bullseye could be more effective in avoiding hangfires, particularly in the Ruger? Should I apply a tighter factory crimp? I've noticed that some of my commercial rounds, particularly the HSM 454 325 gr Bear Loads, are exceptionally factory crimped.

FWIW, I shot my best group from the rest out of the 83 with 11.5 gr of 231. And, offhand, perceived recoil was less than a 44 magnum out of a 6.5" N-frame; low enough to shoot all day.

Low power .454 Casull = .45 Colt