Happy 30th Birthday to the H&K USP!

you claim that the USP is the "heaviest" pistol ever made, when in fact the unloaded weight is almost precisely the same as the Glock 23 (less than an ounce difference, if I recall correctly).
Kindly reread my post. I was referring to the egregious DA trigger pull.
Son, I can guarantee you're not the only one on this forum who has carried / carries a firearm for "real world purposes" and some of those have been in much hairier situations than one can get into in some San Diego suburb.
I was specifically referring to the HK as an issue pistol in Washington state. But thank you for the clarification. I've carried 1911s and M9 in the military (somewhat over 20 years and three combat deployments). It's not about hairier situations, but rather, what works for the average officer. All I pointed out was that once my agency transitioned to polymer-framed striker-fired pistols, every officer across the board increased their proficiency level.

And if one bothers to read all my posts in this thread, I think my affection for HK pistols in general came through. I stated at least twice that I shot the USP effectively and noted I bought one after my department traded theirs in. The main thrust of my post was simply that there exist other DA/SA pistols that may work better for the majority of users than the USP. Geez.
 
I don't mind a little back and forth between members, but this is now getting out of hand and approaching the area of censure.

I've read worse in other threads... I think if ignorance gets ahold of one member and a couple of other members tell him to sit down, they're attempting to keep the thread on the rails. But I'm just a civilian dilletante and THR noob; what do I know? Happy Birthday, USP!
 
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I test fired my H&K USP .40 S&W today at the range with hollowpoint ammo (after decades of FMJ only) and now find this thread here.

I received my H&K USP from my wife Christmas 1998. My son had it 2003-2009 until he went Glock and it was surplusage to him. I was glad to have it back.

I have shot it in local Modern Military matches when .45ACP and decent 7.62x25 were hard to find. (Libya covertly acquired USPs in .40S&W; most military users issued USPs in 9x19 so mine qualified as sorta military issue.)

I've had a few hundred rounds through it over the decades. It has had an Aimpoint and a pistol scope and it surprised me how accurate it could be. But I went to fixed sights.

Mine came with five 10 shot magazines and when I looked at magazine prices I had sticker shock. That's a universal USP complaint.

Otherwise, I have had great reliability, no broken parts. The USP is large for my hands but so are my 19111A1 clone and my CZ-52.
 
I have both a well worn 90s usp 40c and a fresh 9m p2000. The p2000 was lem and i swapped over the usp to lem not long after. The lem triggers are nice and exceptionally smooth but even with practice I shot low large groups. The trigger just breaks way too far back. A CZ p07 has taken over for the p2000 as the night stand gun. Even with a stagey DA trigger i shoot tight centered groups with it. I'll try some more with the hks, esp the usp 40c because i really like how it carries for when I don't have to go highly concealed.
 
As soon as I turned 21 I picked up a 2 tone USP in 9 mm. Still one of my favorite pistols. Not sure if I like it because I shoot it so well or that it was the first of a lifetime of collecting?
 
I can understand why a guy might not like the ergos of the USP, but I suspect the hardcore fans like are mostly folks with larger hands. The USP fits my grip as though Teutonic gunsmiths flew in from Germany to mold the gun around my hand! In the decades I've owned a USP I've probably fired like six rounds DA. The first thing I've always done when getting a new UPS is to swap out the detent plate for on that disables the decocker function to facilitate carrying it cocked-and-locked. My USP Match Trigger is quite good! Not tuned 1911 good but better than most other sidearms.

I played basketball at college and can palm a basketball easily. I've also been a powerlifter for 25 years. It's unlikely the folks who love the grip have much larger hands or more grip strength (or more joint/ muscle pain that goes with the sports/ lifting. Lol)

USP fans have always thrown off in the Glock calling it a brick or 2x4 while the usp is very much more brick or 2x4 shaped in the grip. Measure it and see. Later hk were far better in the ergo arena.

If the USP were so great in the eyes of HK..... the later guns grips would not look so different.
 
USP fans have always thrown off in the Glock calling it a brick or 2x4 while the usp is very much more brick or 2x4 shaped in the grip. Measure it and see. Later hk were far better in the ergo arena.


Weighted a measured (old movie quote)
G3-17 vs USP 45
3B939F42-C2C6-4B87-82C0-0820FC00F893.jpeg
 
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Weighted a measured (old movie quote)
G3-17 vs USP 45
View attachment 1133389

I meant shape. Is a square USP more similar to a brick/2x4 or is a Glock (which is more rounded) and at the time had finger grooves. Ive built many homes and laid a few brick. Never encountered either with finger grooves.

I've also weighed and measured the HK when prior talked about how heavy and fat they were on another thread where I was actually on the "yay USP" side of the argument. Lol. They simply weren't that heavy or fat. But the checkering and the square grip were not good and HK acknowledged that and addressed it in better/later guns that for whatever reason weren't as loved as the USP came to be.
 
I bought a new HK USP Compact 45 in1990 for $639.00.
I never could get used to the DA/SA trigger.

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Traded it last year for a Springfield Hellcat OSP.
They gave me $600.00 trade-in allowance.

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I played basketball at college and can palm a basketball easily. I've also been a powerlifter for 25 years. It's unlikely the folks who love the grip have much larger hands or more grip strength (or more joint/ muscle pain that goes with the sports/ lifting. Lol)

I didn't mean to challenge your strength or impugn your manhood!:rofl: I'm sure you're stronger than I am, especially after two years of sitting on my ass after having my right shoulder rebuilt. While I lack your collegiate basketball pedigree I too could palm a basketball in HS, for whatever that's worth. But I'm not sure what that means. Are you implying I'm only imagining that my USP fits me perfectly? If so this is quite a surprise to me!

USP fans have always thrown off in the Glock calling it a brick or 2x4 while the usp is very much more brick or 2x4 shaped in the grip. Measure it and see. Later hk were far better in the ergo arena.

Nowhere here did I malign the Block, er, Glock.;) But even if I had, it's unlikely that HK fanboys are the only people to mock Gaston's "perfection", now in it's fifth iteration. Undoubtedly the USP is quite blocky, as was the fashion of the time.:rofl: In a way it's natural to compare the two as they're products of the same era but in philosophy they were quite different. Glock recognized the failings (or at least disadvantages) of SA/DA guns of the time- difficulty in transitioning from the 12 lb DA first round the 5 lb SA second round being chief among them. The USP on the other hand appealed to those folks like me looking to transition from 1911s and BHPs to a more modern design while keeping the same manual of arms. Every USP I owned always had the detent plate switched out to remove the decock function to facilitate carrying cocked-and-locked. Of course, many folks have owned Glocks & HKs, myself included.

If the USP were so great in the eyes of HK..... the later guns grips would not look so different.

That's a leap that's not necessarily supported by reality. An explanation for the changes would have to touch on dozens of sometimes unrelated disciplines ranging from industrial design to marketing. In the past it quite common for a given firearm to be offered with little to no alteration from year to year or decade to decade. Aside from a gradual lowering of QC standards an 870 from 2010 is nearly unchanged from one sold in 1950. But in our current location on the timeline of late-stage capitalism corporations seem to have succeeded in installing a "model year" model ported from the auto industry. I first noticed this in the early 90s when Infinity would tweak the shape and cosmetics of their SM150 (and related model names) speakers every year or two. They were virtually identical internally and sounded the same but each tweak was touted as "revolutionary" somehow.

Now of course, the ideal American (ie cutting edge consumer) must have the latest iPhone or Android, the latest sneakers, the newest car, etc. To a degree that kind of makes sense with, say, a computer where a two year old machine maybe can't run the newest games at an acceptable frame rate. But marketing aside, I'll contend that true revolutions in firearms are pretty rare and occur at fairly widely spaced interval. A gen 5 Glock isn't much different than a gen 1 except in trade dress, and maybe in some ways is inferior as evidenced by their release of a "throwback" model. The biggest revolution in handguns in the 2nd half of the 20th century was probably the use of polymers (can't say strikers as they dated back almost a century before they got truly popular). It seems clear that the most seismic revolution in handguns in the early 21st century is the RDS optic.

So the actual improvements/changes. As Western civilization attempted to shrug off the misogyny and troglodytic behavior of centuries past, there was a big move to open up participation in society to the half of the population that's not male. Saint John Browning only needed to concern himself with the anatomy of military age males of Western extract. As it became possible for women to participate in military service and work in LE jobs, it became clear that a one-size-fits-most approach to weapons design was outdated. This kind of coincided with a general increase in the exploration of ergonomics as a function of industrial design. You've probably known some women in your life that could shoot pretty well (my mom was a farm girl and pretty handy with a shotgun or rifle). But it's much harder to shoot well with a gun that doesn't fit you at all.

In the modern day most guns have some design elements centered around ergonomics and fit. Obviously this a good thing. When my dad was a kid, if you were left handed you were simply forced to do stuff right handed and that was that! He was pretty excited anytime he actually found a left handed gun! Ergonomics and a design philosophy of adapting the machine to you instead of forcing you to adapt the machine was a great things (and a linchpin of Travis Haley's company). Handgun designs changed a lot in an attempt to accommodate a wide range of users. HK maybe didn't invent the interchangeable grip panel although I've personally never seen one with as much configurability as the VP9 or P30 guns. But by around 2000 most companies were at least doing back strap panels that you could swap for a better fit. Is this a good thing? Yeah, I think it is. And just like we're not likely to ditch cell phones to go back to land lines neither HK nor any other company in a market economy is going to turn the clock back to a previous century unless consumers demand it.

Still, is all of this purely unmitigated progress? For some reason people still seem to buy millions of 1911s despite them having zero concessions to the last century of industrial design revolutions. Oh yeah, they'll add MIM parts to save money and maybe a rail to add a light. But there are still $3,000 1911s that you could give to a grunt in 1940 without him batting an eye. Despite the success of a gun company that got its start making plastic shovels, S&W still sells millions of wheelguns. Despite them being "obsolete" the revolver is popular enough today for Colt to resurrect their classic snake monikers. Humans are a weird animal!

Over the years I've owned a fair number of HKs, a partial listing including three USPf9s & USP40s, a USP45 Tactical, a USC carbine in .45 ACP, three USPcs in 9mm & 40, four P30s in various calibers and configurations, a P2000 (my primary EDC to this day) and a VP9. Probably I'm forgetting at least one or two. Of all those guns, certainly the P30 is a marvel of engineering and ergonomics. With the supplied grip panels you can create 27 different grip configurations! Yet at the range, I can still shoot my USPf9 the best of all my HKs due to the serendipitous fit of the gun to my hand and even more due to the fantastic Match Trigger. In fact, if HK would spruce up the USP line with a standard 1913 rail and a factory optic cut I'd probably bump it to the top of the carry rotation. In fact, rumor is that HK refused to do so because they've invested a lot of R&D into their newer guns with are reported to be cheaper to make (at least in the case of the VP9), and they don't want to risk cannibalizing sales of the new guns.

Sorry for the long winded answer, but I think the topic is pretty interesting.
 
I didn't mean to challenge your strength or impugn your manhood!:rofl: I'm sure you're stronger than I am, especially after two years of sitting on my ass after having my right shoulder rebuilt. While I lack your collegiate basketball pedigree I too could palm a basketball in HS, for whatever that's worth. But I'm not sure what that means. Are you implying I'm only imagining that my USP fits me perfectly? If so this is quite a surprise to me!

I'm not implying anything about the usp fitting you. You stated that maybe the people who liked the usp had larger hands. I have large hands and don't mind the grip but there are many I like better. It was never the size it was the squared edges and the front checkering. Our chief detective is a big guy. Dwarfs me and I'm way bigger than most. He hated the USP. He chose the big fat Glock 21 over the 22 though. I chose the 22. I can't imagine he minded the size of the USP and then chose the Glock 21 so it must have been the shape for him as well. I like my Beretta 92/96, sig 226/229 (without the small e2 grips...don't like those)...my favorite guns are many of the ones people say are too big. Still think the USP is the worst of my favorites. Still a favorite though.

Screenshot_20230215-110247_Gallery.jpg

Thats a normal day at my range and probably my favorite semi autos. Notice you don't see my "new and improved" guns. No 320. No fn, no fk...

And NO 1911..... lol

And my right shoulder is ruined as well, between football, basketball, and weight lifting im sonewhere between PT and cortisone shots and "discussing" rotator cuff repair" which I'll put off as long as possible. Lower back is pretty well fubar too. The point of palming a men's college basketball was the size of the basketball and hand size. Many bigger guys could only palm a girl ball or even a volleyball when they were attempting a dunk. Lol. Wasn't about my athletic superiority. I wasn't that good.

Aside from a gradual lowering of QC standards an 870 from 2010 is nearly unchanged from one sold in 1950

Thats because they haven't designed a better pump gun. Not for the broad usage . In fact clones are made of the same one. My point exactly . Hk did make theirs better and that is what they want to sell. Same for the AR and AK Others have came and gone but they are still there because nothing was better. Or at least not so much to abandon them.


they're products of the same era

They are a decade apart. When the Glock released we were listening to records and cassette. Thriller was the new and number one album and we were playing Pacman on a 2600. When the USP was released we were listening to smells like teen spirit on CD and only a year from ps1 (which is where my interest in the USP came from to begin with) ....thriller was still the number 1 album. Maybe same era. Maybe not. Depends on how you want to see "era".

And thriller is still the number one album


revolver is popular enough today for Colt to resurrect their classic snake monikers

Again because nobody has improved the design. Old python grips still fit on my new anaconda.... not saying it's perfect but nothing has really improved in the design. Really the only change has been the rhino and that wasn't really well recieved. The HK45 is just a better gun than a USP in 45. Hk improved on the gun. Kept the good and improved the lacking. Unlike Glock who goes back and forward on whether or not to have finger grooves and rests on the "perfection" BS. Id much rather a company improve and move forward rather than ignoring customers because they think they are "perfect"
 
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A decade apart is pretty close when the industry went decades virtually unchanged. Certainly I'm not saying everyone with large hands liked the USP, merely that most folks that did like it have large hands. And I think you're wrong and misunderstand marketing if you think the "better product" always "wins out". Markets aren't genuinely rational and the best doesn't always win out. The HK45 is in some demonstrably inferior to the USP45 but it was well marketed and is also better in some ways. Better is often a subjective thing. If durability is the main criterion the USP45 may well be the greatest handgun ever made, and Federal's test USP45 had well over half a million rounds through it last I heard (which was a while ago).

Enjoy cleaning your Glock while listening to Thriller.:rofl: It's fine that everyone likes different guns, it would be a boring world if there was only Glocks, Sigs & Smiths.
 
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