Harvard SPH, AP, & Yahoo at it again--

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jfh

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Well, it's time for another study from the Harvard School of Public Health.

Here's the link http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070410/ts_nm/suicide_guns_dc;_ylt=AoVjXNuIhKmU3ViS3QfFFRCs0NUE

...and here's the text:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Suicide rates among people of all ages are higher in states where more homes have guns, U.S. researchers reported on Tuesday.

Twice as many people committed suicide in the 15 states with the highest levels of household gun ownership, compared with the six states with the lowest levels, even though the population in all the states was about the same, the researchers found.

"We found that where there are more guns, there are more suicides," said Matthew Miller of the Harvard School of Public Health, who led the study.

While just 5 percent of all suicide attempts involve a gun, the person succeeds in killing himself or herself 90 percent of the time.

People use drugs to attempt suicide in 75 percent of cases, but actually die less than 3 percent of the time, the researchers said, citing other surveys.

The study, published in the Journal of Trauma, suggests that removing guns from homes, particularly those with adolescents, would have a big impact on suicide prevention.

"In a nation where more than half of all suicides are gun suicides and where more than one in three homes have firearms, one cannot talk about suicide without talking about guns," Miller said in a statement.

Suicide is the 11th-leading cause of death among Americans, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In 2004, more than half of the 32,439 Americans who committed suicide used a firearm.

Miller and colleagues used survey data to estimate the percentage of people who kept guns in their homes in each of the 50 states. They looked at a survey of 200,000 people done by the CDC in 2001, which found that about a third of U.S. households reported having a gun.

They took into account poverty, urbanization, unemployment, drug and alcohol dependence and abuse, and mental illness, and calculated the relationship of gun ownership to suicide.

"Removing all firearms from one's home is one of the most effective and straightforward steps that household decision-makers can take to reduce the risk of suicide," Miller said.

"Removing firearms may be especially effective in reducing the risk of suicide among adolescents and other potentially impulsive members of their home," Miller added.

"Short of removing all firearms, the next best thing is to make sure that all guns in homes are very securely locked up and stored separately from secured ammunition," he said.

The same team found in February that guns are used to kill two out of every three murder victims in the United States.


This is so utterly predictable. My own correlational studies indicate that every time the Democrat Party wins big, these kinds of stories go up. But that's another topic for another time.

Jim H.
 
"Removing all firearms from one's home is one of the most effective and straightforward steps that household decision-makers can take to reduce the risk of suicide," Miller said.

Unless the study shows a direct causation between gun OWNERSHIP and suicide, that is the most ignorant statement I have ever read.
The article does not say anything about gun ownership or guns in the home, and suicide rates.
Even High School kids should know correlation is not causation (well, if they did studies like this would never see the light of day).
Journal of Trauma must not be a peer reviewed Journal.
 
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H-A-R

H-A-R

H-A-R WITH A "V"

V-A-R

V-A-R

V-A-R WITH A "D"

Harvard guys are really tough

They know how to knit and stuff

Knit One, Pearl Two

Har-vard

Har-vard

YOOHOO!
 
Study?

Doesn't appear to be much of a study, appears to be a justification for a waste of time and ink.
I am not well versed on cause of suicide or methods of achievement.
The Japanese have been doing it for centuries with swords and knives.
Removal of guns will serve no purpose other than sending the person intent on taking their own life to another method.
Maybe we should remove automobiles from garages, to prevent suicide from carbon monoxide, or maybe we should remove bridges from across rivers, maybe we should prohibit doctors from prescribing medications.
Maybe, maybe, maybe......maybe we should we should realize that no matter how it is accompolished, if a person is going to commit suicide, they are going to get the job done.
 
Rather than banning guns, why not focus on the issues and causation of suicide?

Perhaps counseling, medications, or other alternatives should be considered to provide people with suicidal ideation to understand their feelings are not uncommon in many people, and there are ways to overcome those feelings.

The drive for suicide is significant and occasionally I see cases in the work comp system come through my office. You have a person that feels hopeless and helpless, overwhelmed with a catastrophic injury, or feeling like they're getting screwed, or whatever. Sometimes one on one counseling works, sometimes peer or group counseling works, sometimes psychotropic medications will work.

In nearly ten years, and several dozen people expressing suicidal ideation, we've never lost one person.

We never took away their automobile, or their knives, baseball bats, golfclubs, or guns. We corrected the mental or chemical imbalance, rather than going after an inanimate object that has nothing to do with the condition of the patient.

Of course, I'm not a doctor or lawyer - but I did play one on tv!!!
 
While just 5 percent of all suicide attempts involve a gun, the person succeeds in killing himself or herself 90 percent of the time.


"We found that where there are more guns, there are more suicides," said Matthew Miller of the Harvard School of Public Health, who led the study.

These 2 statements above make no sense when combined.

There are more than 5% of homes in the US with guns, so why only a 5% suicide rate using guns?

They have tried to tie the 2 statistics together, but have failed to account for that one.

Statistics do not prove causation.
 
BY FAR AND AWAY, more suicides are attempted by other means--drugs, cars, knives (cutting wrists/throat), hanging, ingesting household cleaners, etc.--than with guns. Guns are simply more effective at killing, so there's a higher SUCCESSFUL suicide rate with guns, but attemps are BY FAR lower than other methods. This is well known in medicine. To distort this information into this:

Guns at home equal higher suicide risk: study

...is RIDICULOUS. Correlation DOES NOT equal causation. I could make a headline "Cigarette lighters equal higher lung cancer risk," and it would be just as false. Obviously, the lighter doesn't cause lung cancer.

The study, published in the Journal of Trauma, suggests that removing guns from homes, particularly those with adolescents, would have a big impact on suicide prevention.

This is a HUGE leap from correlation to banning guns. What about paying attention to signs of behavioral change or depression? Warning signs are prevalent. The problem is not in the gun, it's in the person's head who's committing suicide--that's where the help or intervention should be directed.

The same team found in February that guns are used to kill two out of every three murder victims in the United States.

Think they have an agenda? Again, guns are more likely to be successful at killing someone than using your bare hands. What about all the violent acts committed without guns and all the injuries they cause? So it's not as important to be permanently disabled than to die?

While just 5 percent of all suicide attempts involve a gun, the person succeeds in killing himself or herself 90 percent of the time. People use drugs to attempt suicide in 75 percent of cases.

And they think that the 5% is where to direct efforts... not the other 95% who attempt all the time using other methods??? So the repeat attempters are less of a problem because they're not successful? It's a psychological problem. Maybe if we directed efforts at suicide prevention on the risks, warning signs, and psychological factors we'd help 100% instead of focusing on the object they use to attempt or commit suicide. I think they've lost focus of the problem.
 
What's next? Will they tear down their ivory towers at Cambridge so no one can jump out of them to their doom?:D

I'm all for tearing down tall buildings where people may get hurt. What do you say we start in Boston!

Silly blissninnies, want to Nerfize the world.:banghead:
 
el tejon - there are not that many tall buildings in beantown. i can think of maybe two (the pru being the tallest).

the tallest buildings on the other side of the rivah in cambridge are the university dorms.

:neener:
 
What about the DoubleTree in Chinatown where we stay? That's tallish.

I could be exercising in the courtyard and jump to my doom (or be run over by the orange line).:D

Oh, yeah, there's a bunch of water near Boston. Someone may drown. I say we drain the Atlantic via giving buckets to Harvard professors, for the children.:p
 
mmmmm....chinatown. china pearl has the best dim sum, if you are into that (they don't have THAT in Indiana).

i think the commonwealth should ban fatty high-cholesterol high glycemic index foods such as those that are served in china town. say goodbye to diabetes, heart disease/stroke and cancer. what a healthy utopia the communistwealth will be.

that's after we ban the tall buildings.

gov deval, are you listening?
 
Funny that the U.S. suicide rate is LOWER than that of Canada and only a fraction of that of Japan...maybe if Japan banned guns, their suicide rate would be as low as ours...
 
While just 5 percent of all suicide attempts involve a gun, the person succeeds in killing himself or herself 90 percent of the time.

"In a nation where more than half of all suicides are gun suicides and where more than one in three homes have firearms, one cannot talk about suicide without talking about guns," Miller said in a statement.

Dude... 5% does not equal half of all suicides.

Miller is an idiot. I don't care who buys into his BS... they're idiots too.
 
Dude... 5% does not equal half of all suicides.

Miller is an idiot. I don't care who buys into his BS... they're idiots too.

To be fair to the ridiculous article, one statement mentions attempts, and the other mentions suicides (I presume successful).

Note the failure rate of drug suicides stated previously.
 
While just 5 percent of all suicide attempts involve a gun, the person succeeds in killing himself or herself 90 percent of the time.

That tells me that gun owners are smarter cause we get it right the first time.:p
 
Here's a shocking thought. People who are "committing suicide" as a sympathy ploy or to make some kind of statement or want attention are not going to use a gun. People who really want to die are going to use a method that is more likely to succeed.

My best friend in high school sadly chose to end his life a couple months after graduation. He did not use a gun. Instead, he cut lengthwise down the arteries in his arms and then hung himself. That was NOT a cry for help.
 
Why spend hundreds of dollars on a firearm to knock yourself off, when you can take a handfull of cash down to Rite-Aid and get enough meds to knock yourself off in your sleep...

More economical and less messy...
 
cuz no one ever commited suicide with razor blades, jumping off bridges, stepping in front of trains,intentional overdose, hanging,helium in a bag (yes helium in a bag), poison, knives, stepping in front of a greyhound(yes bus), or remaining in an unhealthy relationship too long... :scrutiny:
 
hankdatank1362

Quote:
While just 5 percent of all suicide attempts involve a gun, the person succeeds in killing himself or herself 90 percent of the time.
Quote:
"In a nation where more than half of all suicides are gun suicides and where more than one in three homes have firearms, one cannot talk about suicide without talking about guns," Miller said in a statement.
Dude... 5% does not equal half of all suicides.

Miller is an idiot. I don't care who buys into his BS... they're idiots too.

This is what stood out for me also. If you parse the "data" in the article, it soulds like something a ten year old made up at the last minute.

Sheesh.
Morcoth
 
They took into account poverty, urbanization, unemployment, drug and alcohol dependence and abuse, and mental illness, and calculated the relationship of gun ownership to suicide.

THIS is the key . When you have a remedy for what ails society you will find suicides diminish . They will never go away , but of you take the ROOT CAUSE away , it will not matter if guns are around or not . Rather than blaming the tool(s) , maybe they should study the cause .

Just my .02 . YMMV
 
Stupid headline. Should be "Guns at home equals higher suicide success rate" since that's what they found. Might just be me, but I don't see a problem. Surviving a determined suicide attempt ain't always good...
 
*yawn*

Since this article was hysterical about "kids and guns and suicides," I decided to dig some data up.

Poking around Wisqars (the CDC data website) I found the following:

Suicides (totals) ages 0-17 for year 2004
All causes: 1029
Firearm involved: 384
Non-firearm: 645
Crude ratio: 1.679

For a crude ratio suggesting that(true) kids are almost twice as likely to commit suicide using means other than guns that with guns.
 
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