Has .380 ACP been relegated to "pocket pistols"?

[ScottRiqui]

I have a Beretta 84 that holds 13+1 rounds of .380 ACP in a double-stack magazine, and it got me wondering if there are still very many high-capacity compact .380 pistols being made?

All of the recent .380s I can think of are sub-compact single-stack ones like the LCP, where size is obviously the primary design consideration.

 

[harmon rabb]

with how superior 9mm ballistics are, and how soft shooting service size 9's are, why would 380 be used for anything but pocket pistols?

 

[PRM]

with how superior 9mm ballistics are, and how soft shooting service size 9's are, why would 380 be used for anything but pocket pistols?

UMMM, Arrg, aaah, ... don't know bout this. My CZ-83 is pretty sweet.

But then, I still EDC a Walther PP in 32 ACP. Yea, I know there are bigger & better out there, but after 20+ years I have become really comfortable and proficient with my Walther. It does what I want ~ I don't count on one shot stops ~ and I don't feel the need to change every time something new hits the market.

 

[ScottRiqui]

I guess I'd have to look at the Beretta next to some of the compact 9mm models out there of similar capacity to see if the Beretta is significantly smaller. If not, then I agree - 9mm would be a better choice. But if it is smaller than most 13+1 9mm guns, then I could see it filling a useful niche.

 

[2wheels]

Pretty much, yeah... You don't really see .380 in anything that isn't tiny these days. Especially with 9mm being cheaper and more powerful.

 

[smalls]

2wheels nailed it on the head.
If you took two of the exact same pistols, with the exception of one being .380, and one being 9mm, both holding the same number of rounds, why the hell would you pick up the .380?
9mm is cheaper, and has better ballistics. So a stronger cartridge, and more practice ammo.
My defensive ammo is cheaper than .380 range ammo.
I honestly don't see the point in the .380 cartridge anymore, since our 9mm pocket pistols are getting just as small, if not the same size.

 

[shootniron]

Here is one of the exceptions...Bersa Thunder 380 Plus...right fine gun that isn't really a pocket pistol.

http://www.google.com/products/cata...4&ei=aF0nT_q2F4_AgQfT8vXEBw&ved=0CAgQ8gIwAA#p

 

[ScottRiqui]

2wheels nailed it on the head.
If you took two of the exact same pistols, with the exception of one being .380, and one being 9mm, both holding the same number of rounds, why the hell would you pick up the .380?
9mm is cheaper, and has better ballistics. So a stronger cartridge, and more practice ammo.
My defensive ammo is cheaper than .380.

If both guns were the exact same size & weight, then I could see your point - why choose .380 over 9mm? But I suspect that guns like the Beretta 84 and the Bersa that shootniron linked to are smaller than most 9mm models of similar capacity. That's the "niche" I was referring to - bigger than a pocket pistol, high capacity, but still smaller than most similar-capacity 9mm pistols.

 

[MutinousDoug]

If you don't shoot enough to justify reloading and you don't pocket carry then the .380 doesn't make a lot of sense.
So move on to the 9mm/.45acp argument and be done here.
If you reload and shoot the .380, it's no more expensive than 9mm surplus and much more pleasant to shoot from the pocket pistols available.
After shooting my Bersa Thunder .380 and my S&W model 15 2" snub, she settled on a S&W 442. I find the 442 unpleasant to shoot but good for her. She doesn't practice much and doesn't reload (I do that for her whenever she wants).

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

It seems that most handguns these days are built and purchased with CCW in mind. Recreational shooting, purely for the enjoyment of shooting something different, is on the back burner. Walk into any gun store and 90%+ of their handgun inventory is going to be pistols meant for CCW. If a gun doesn't fit that bill, it doesn't sell as well. And manufacturers aren't keen on building things that don't sell.

 

[briansmithwins]

Since I got the Kahr PM9 the .380 ACP pistols have been sold.

The PM9 is smaller and lighter than the Walther PPK or the Sig P230 I had. Recoil is managed better, and the final nail is I can buy 9mmP cheaper than .380 ACP by the case.

I'm sure there is a place for .380 ACP, but not for me.

BSW

 

[MedWheeler]

I think the original question was regarding "high-capacity" pistols. The Kahr PM9, while an excellent choice for concealed carry, doesn't fit that category. Between it and the Thunder Plus, I don't think I'd actually trade one for the other if I only had one. I'm pretty comfortable with either seven-plus rounds of 9mm, or more of a lesser caliber. Among those the OP asked about, I can only think of the Taurus PT58, and the already-mentioned Bersa Thunder Plus (as well as his Beretta.) I'm pretty sure there may be an offering from CZ as well.
Yes, the "pocket-nines" such as the Ruger LC9, the Kahr PM9, and the Kel-Tec PF9 (my EDC) have greatly cut into the market once occuppied by .380 pistols, and have squeezed out most all but the most compact models. "Bigger" .380 guns have their place with those who may be recoil sensitive, and who are not inclined to spend hundreds or thousands of rounds each year shooting for fun or practice like we do, but that's probably far from the majority of us here.

 

[Ed4032]

The reason that the larger 380 were made was because of laws in Latin America. They were required to have non military caliber guns. Double stack 380 filled a nich.

 

[MedWheeler]

The reason that the larger 380 were made was because of laws in Latin America. They were required to have non military caliber guns. Double stack 380 filled a niche.

Yup. True in parts of Europe as well. Notice there are few, if any, American "high-capacity" .380 models.

 

[berettaprofessor]

But the Beretta 84/85 series is soooo beautiful.......no clunky 9mm can compare to it.

 

[huntsman]

Has .380 ACP been relegated to "pocket pistols"?

it's more of a return to pocket pistols in .380acp but there's still full size guns also.

 

[heeler]

I own an LCP and a PM9 and find myself carrying the LCP far more.
The reason is the lithe size and weight.
The LCP is 12 ounces fully loaded vs 20 ounces for the loaded PM9.
And although the Kahr is small there is no way it's as small and concealable in pocket carry mode as the LCP.
So yea,there is plenty of reasons the 380 is not going away anytime soon.

 

[dogtown tom]

berettaprofessor But the Beretta 84/85 series is soooo beautiful.......no clunky 9mm can compare to it.

Well....no Beretta 9mm can compare , but my Hi Power is skinnier than my Beretta 84.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I had a Model 86, the single-stack, tipup barrel version, as a collector's piece. (I liked its craftsmanship and unusual design.) But it is virtually the same size as a Glock 19, a 16-shot 9mm Luger. For carry and self defense, guess which one I would use.

 

[smalls]

I understand the .380 niche, and it's uses. My opinion is that in a pocket gun, you still might as well go with 9mm. But this post isn't about pocket guns, so I stick to my point:
Even if I did like the caliber, I feel it'd bee completely useless in a high capacity gun.

 

[gym]

Anyone who thinks that at close rnge the 380 won't get the job done as well as the 9 is mistaken. It may take 2 or 3 rounds, but so may any gun except a rifle or shotgun. It puts the same size hole in you as a 9, or 38, and with powerball ammo it travels at 1000 fps. At ten feet, your attacker won't know the difference, unless you miss.
There are very little real world differences between the two. You also have a better chance of hitting something with a ppk's or sig 232, carrying 380's than a keltec with 9mm in it. I carried one for 20 years before all these small guns came out 20 years ago, but never felt that it wouldn't do the job, if you shoot well. If not it doesn't matter what you have. Granted they have been replaced because of the availability of many mini guns now. But a 380 was carried by many european police forces for many years and with todays powerful ammo, they will kill you with no distinction or predisposed idea about their inadequate size. ALso your follow up shots with a steel gun are very precise. 9mm kurtz, is indeed an underestimated round. They have killed millions of people who can not attest to this, lol. I used to put them down also whe I went back to my larger 40 and 45 glock and 1911. But I would rather have a 380 with me in a baretta or sig, than a 9mm in a bersa or keltec in a close quarter gunfight.It's penetraton that's the only difference, and some FMJ ammo will solve that if you stack your rounds. I carry one of each, the sweet thing about the 380 is my hand is on it while I am at the talking stage. I can place that anyware I please at that distance, with a gaurantee that it will do it's job well and allow me time if necessary to get to my 9 or 40, or whatever.Usually that's all you need is the element of surprise, it's also very accurate at 25 feet or even out further. But up close only God will know the difference. The misconception that small caliber guns are not potent is foolish, 32's were used by many a gunfighter for their accuracy in a gunfight.

 

[Jim K]

How "relegated to" pocket pistols? The .380 ACP was developed for pocket pistols, and I don't know any .380 pistols that were/are anything else, except the Browning M1903's converted to .380 and those were originally 9mm Browning Long.

The situation, in fact, is the reverse. Small pistols, of a size once considered suitable only for the .32 ACP and .380 ACP are now being made in 9mm Parabellum (Luger). So the 9mm P. is going to small pistols where the .380 has been all the time.

Jim

 

[Byrd666]

As the .380 is a relatively small round, like the .32 or .25 and it can be used as pocket, close quarters self defense weapon. Is it going to be relegated to being just a pocket pistol caliber, I'm thinking no. Not as long as big companies like CZ, Berretta, Bersa, and Sig keep making them and the public still buys them.

 

[Pilot]

But the Beretta 84/85 series is soooo beautiful.......no clunky 9mm can compare to it.

Well now I wouldn't say that, but as I often carry a Beretta M85FS I would have to agree that the officers sized Berettas are still relevant, and beautiful. A good +p .380 out of a four inch barrel is about equal to a .38 Spl out of a two inch barrel.

 

[harmon rabb]

UMMM, Arrg, aaah, ... don't know bout this. My CZ-83 is pretty sweet.

But then, I still EDC a Walther PP in 32 ACP. Yea, I know there are bigger & better out there, but after 20+ years I have become really comfortable and proficient with my Walther. It does what I want ~ I don't count on one shot stops ~ and I don't feel the need to change every time something new hits the market.

My cz-82s are sweet too, but I didn't select them for the cartridge they fire. I selected them because they're sweet guns.