Has anyone else Wax dipped their 22 ammo?

[777funk]

I remember seeing some lead 22 ammo with wax on the bullets so I tried an experiment. Before the experiment, I cleaned out the 22 barrel real well.

I took Winchester White Box 22 ammo and dipped the bullets only (right up to the case neck) in hot paraffin. Seems like the cheap ammo is shooting pretty well. It'd be hard to compare unwaxed because I'm sure the barrel is waxed up pretty well by now and would effect the unwaxed. I'd have to clean it with naptha or something else to get the wax out. But I'm curious if anyone else has tried it. I THINK I'm seeing an accuracy improvement.

 

[bamajoey]

You won't have to clean it out with naptha, just shoot it. 10 -15 shots will get enough of the wax out, then use any ammo you want.

 

[777funk]

I have a touch of Bees (stronger and harder) in the paraffin. All I know is it seemed to help tighten up the group. I have mine at around 200F (wax is thinner when hot) and it runs off leaving just a thin layer behind. The hotter the wax the easier it runs off and the thinner the layer.

I wonder if this applies to centerfire?

 

[Slamfire]

Twenty two long rifle cartridges are one of the oldest, if not the oldest, cartridges around. At the time they were created bullets were externally lubricated. If you also notice, the bullet diameter is equal or greater than the case diameter. This older design died through natural selection around 1880’s, except for those legacy rounds that stayed within the market place.

Of course the bullets are lubricated, in fact, the whole case is lubricated. Many 22LR’s are blowback actions and need the case lubrication to keep friction between the case and chamber from stopping action cycling. This should be a “duh”, but anyone who has had sticky extraction in their bolt rifle or revolver ought to understand that the same level of extraction trouble, due to sticking cases, in a gas gun will stop it from functioning.

To continue down this path, prior to WW2 all delayed blowback designs used passive or active oiling mechanisms. Here is something future General Hatcher wrote for the Army Ordnance Magazine:

Army Ordnance Magazine, March-April 1933

Automatic Firearms, Mechanical Principles used in the various types, by J. S. Hatcher. Chief Smalls Arms Division Washington DC.

Retarded Blow-back Mechanism………………………..

There is one queer thing, however, that is common to almost all blow-back and retarded blow-back guns, and that is that there is a tendency to rupture the cartridges unless they are lubricated. This is because the moment the explosion occurs the thin front end of the cartridge case swells up from the internal pressure and tightly grips the walls of the chamber. Cartridge cases are made with a strong solid brass head a thick wall near the rear end, but the wall tapers in thickness until the front end is quiet thin so that it will expand under pressure of the explosion and seal the chamber against the escape of gas to the rear. When the gun is fired the thin front section expands as intended and tightly grips the walls of the chamber, while the thick rear portion does not expand enough to produce serious friction. The same pressure that operates to expand the walls of the case laterally, also pushes back with the force of fifty thousand pounds to the square inch on the head of the cartridge, and the whole cartridge being made of elastic brass stretches to the rear and , in effect, give the breech block a sharp blow with starts it backward. The front end of the cartridge being tightly held by the friction against the walls of the chamber, and the rear end being free to move back in this manner under the internal pressure, either one of two things will happen. In the first case, the breech block and the head of the cartridge may continue to move back, tearing the cartridge in two and leaving the front end tightly stuck in the chamber; or, if the breech block is sufficiently retarded so that it does not allow a very violent backward motion, the result may simply be that the breech block moves back a short distance and the jerk of the extractor on the cartridge case stops it, and the gun will not operate.

However this difficultly can be overcome entirely by lubricating the cartridges in some way. In the Schwarzlose machine gun there is a little pump installed in the mechanism which squirts a single drop of oil into the chamber each time the breech block goes back. In the Thompson Auto-rifle there are oil-soaked pads in the magazine which contains the cartridges. In the Pedersen semiautomatic rifle the lubrication is taken care of by coating the cartridges with a light film of wax.

Blish Principle….There is no doubt that this mechanism can be made to operate as described, provided the cartridge are lubricated, …. That this type of mechanism actually opens while there is still considerable pressure in the cartridge case is evident from the fact that the gun does not operate satisfactorily unless the cartridges are lubricated.

Thompson Sub-Machine Gun: … Owing to the low pressure involved in the pistol cartridge, it is not necessary to lubricate the case.

The Hispano-Oerlikon,was passively lubricated, and the lubrication was grease. The Oerlikon was a 20mm delayed blow back cannon, used by the US Navy from WW2 all the way through Vietnam. You can see at exactly 2:14 on this WW2 video a crew assembling belts of ammunition and a Sailor’s hand painting grease on the 20 mm Oerlikon ammunition.
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=9dR3h2HdnBQ

Basically if you dissolve the wax lubricant from your 22 LR ammunition you will have accuracy issues and if you are shooting in a blowback action, possibly extraction issues.

 

[777funk]

Basically if you dissolve the wax lubricant from your 22 LR ammunition you will have accuracy issues and if you are shooting in a blowback action, possibly extraction issues.

This is in a 10/22 which is a blowback action. So far no failures. I probably have 20 or 30 through it. Accuracy has not suffered, if anything it seems to have improved.

 

[Slamfire]

I have a touch of Bees (stronger and harder) in the paraffin. All I know is it seemed to help tighten up the group. I have mine at around 200F (wax is thinner when hot) and it runs off leaving just a thin layer behind. The hotter the wax the easier it runs off and the thinner the layer.

I wonder if this applies to centerfire?

Well, maybe.

Prior to WW1 all riflemen used grease on their bullets. Bullet jackets of the era fouled something awful and grease kits were sold openly and used openly until the early 20’s.




This was in the single heat treat M1903 era. What honest shooters of the era did not know was that the single heat treat rifles they were using were unsafe with any ammunition and many just fragmented. The Ordnance Department actually knew that single heat treat rifles were dangerous, so dangerous as a class that an Army board recommended scrapping all 1 million of them. However, none of this was in the public domain at the time and the Ordnance Department claimed that 03's blowups were due to greased bullets. This got even more outrageous in 1921, where a tin coating on the 1921 NM ammunition (Tin can bullet is #4) actually caused cold welding between the bullet and case and blew up at least two rifles at the 1921 National Matches and five at the Wakefield matches. By soldering the bullet to the case neck the Army created an awesome bore obstruction. The Army publically declared the ammunition was perfectly safe (it was not), blamed greased bullets, and banned greased bullets from competition thereafter.



For Americans, greased bullets were not allowed in NRA matches and pretty much the use of grease bullets forgotten until moly coat bullets. Moly bullets were shot in the millions, national matches were won with the things, and there was a lively debate whether moly coated bullets were more accurate, whether the barrel lasted longer, etc. What was true, moly coated bullets were messy and just another thing to go wrong and moly has been slowly receding from competition.

However, Europeans had been shooting greased bullets since the 1880’s and we know the Swiss were greasing bullets, claiming improved accuracy, longer barrel life, easier cleanups, all the way to the 1980’s. It was discontinued in service ammunition, from what I read, because in cold weather the grease made extraction difficult. The Swiss do live in the Alps you know. However I have also read that grease kits are still available because shooters believe that their ammunition is more accurate if greased.

 

[Slamfire]

Basically if you dissolve the wax lubricant from your 22 LR ammunition you will have accuracy issues and if you are shooting in a blowback action, possibly extraction issues.

This is in a 10/22 which is a blowback action. So far no failures. I probably have 20 or 30 through it. Accuracy has not suffered, if anything it seems to have improved.

Does your ammunition shoot like this at fifty meters?:




Or like this at 100 yards? (Same rifle, just shot by me, prone with a sling)








I shot well waxed match ammunition and for the cost of the stuff, I am happy with the accuracy.

 

[earplug]

Had several bricks of CCI standard Velocity that had to much wax, it would not chamber during a match. I added a little CLP to each magazine to thin the wax.
Heated floor wax such as Johnson's paste was has been used for lubing cast bullets. All the lube does on a lead bullet is keep the lead from adhering to the barrel.

 

[777funk]

SlamFire: Very interesting about that Swiss GP11. I've always heard that stuff is great surplus ammo (maybe the best). Also lots of other interesting data from history. And very nice groups! I need to see what this thing will do at 100 yds. I don't think it'll do that out of a 10/22 but you never know. I seriously doubt it. I'm getting 1/4" groups at 20 yards (I'd say at least part of that is due to me). This 10/22 is bedded up to the 2-3" mark on the barrel and floated for the rest, but still has a stock barrel (carbine stainless) and it's of course a 10/22 which is a downfall in and of itself compared to a bolt 22 like a CZ452 etc. BTW I shot one of those at the range recently (17hmr) and it put a few through a ragged hole at 100. That was a nice rifle.

Earplug: I use SC Johnson Paste Wax quite a bit for various things (lubing saw tops etc) but I wouldn't think it'd be hard enough to have a consistency like what I've seen on .22LR ammo (commercial). It's more of a grease than say parrafin wax or bees for that matter. You can take a fingernail chunk out of the commercial 22 ammo. It's not quite as hard as a candle but it's close. There are candles I've seen that have that consistency.

 

[quartermaster]

SlamFire, I will agree with triple 7 funk.

Great groups and some good reading. My 22s will group like your 50 yard target until I shoot the second shot. At that point, it's all downhill.

I would like to try something to improve my 22lr accuracy, just not sure where to start with this lube idea. Hopefully you guys will keep posting with some suggestions to try or someone else will chime in.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

The lube on most match ammo is greasy and not hard like on lots of bulk ammo.

I have a couple of guns that will consistently shoot groups like Slam's....Just like his they won't do it on cheap ammo, either. They aren't 10/22's or CZ's, either.

 

[777funk]

ColtPython: No doubt CZ's are probably considered "run of the mill" to the serious 22 target guys. I have to say I was impressed with that 452 heavy barrel though when my 17hmr holes were touching (almost same hole) at 100yds. I wouldn't have expected this. The guy who let me shoot it was a dealer... he let me shoot his rifle I think in hopes that it'd catch an interest with me... he was right! But I still ain't buying one... I'm not interested in spending $500 on a rimfire at this point in my life. Shooting a bedded factory stainless 10/22 into 1/4" groups at 20 yards is enough to keep me happy for now. That's minute of a squirrels head.

EDIT: Actually I was wrong (I just eyeballed the waxed groups and guessed 1/4" and that's what I typed in this post and a few posts back)! My son just brought me the target that HE shot (9 year old) and the group measured .063 horizontally and .12 vertically CtC. This was done by measuring outside of the holes then subtracting .224. I'm not sure if this is accurate though because round nose bullets leave a smaller than OD hole. But that's what I measured.

 

[Slamfire]

I wouldn't think it'd be hard enough to have a consistency like what I've seen on .22LR ammo (commercial). It's more of a grease than say parrafin wax or bees for that matter. You can take a fingernail chunk out of the commercial 22 ammo. It's not quite as hard as a candle but it's close. There are candles I've seen that have that consistency.

Grease is a thickener saturated with oil. I don't see why beeswax could not be considered "the thickener" for bullet lubes. Blackpowder shooters often use bullet lubes that are 50% beeswax and 50% crisco. Sometimes shooters toss in some olive oil into the mix.

I have found that the consistency of the lube makes a big difference on target. Good target match ammunition is inside boxes that are very air tight. I believe this is to keep the volatiles in the bullet lube from evaporating out. Once the seal is broken the lube starts drying out. I have some very old Eley, in a cardboard box, the lube is hard. [It does not shoot that well. Lube for new Eley is greasy.

After shooting tens of thousands of rounds of match ammunition, I can say, the further you go out, the more you will see the difference between quality ammunition and rock buster 22 LR. I have shot some surprisingly good groups at 25/50 yards with cheap ammunition. But move the target out to 100 yards, and the good ammunition reveals itself every time.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Eley is the only manufacturer I recall that uses a near airtight plastic box, most everyone else uses regular cardboard. I don't know if keeps the lube from drying or not. I have seen black box with a little age on it that has had it's lube dry out....I will agree that it stand to reason that once the lube dries accuracy should suffer. However, I have seen the exception to the rule. I shoot matches with a guy that has a stash of near 20 year old out of production ammo. It's lube is now hard and white. His gun shoots better with that stuff than anything else.

 

[Salmoneye]

I have never seen a .22 Rimfire that was not factory lubed...

 

[tuj]

Eley is the only manufacturer I recall that uses a near airtight plastic box

Eley boxes are NOT airtight. Far from it. You are right that aside from CCI, they are the only major using a plastic box on their offerings.

You do not need to wax-dip .22 ammo. Its already properly lubed from the factory.

Eley match will shoot like this from a good gun:

 

[777funk]

You do not need to wax-dip .22 ammo. Its already properly lubed from the factory.

I was talking about the cheap/bulk ammo. I don't think this is lubed (at least I don't feel any or have been able to scrape any off). This is the stuff I was wax dipping.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Uuuummmmmmmmmm......

I don't understand the point of this post.

22 Rimfire ammo is already lubricated. Why add more lube?

As was previously stated, 22 rimfire ammo uses a heeled bullet, and heeled bullets have the bullet lube applied to the outside of the bullet, unlike modern bullets which carry the lube in grooves on the portion of the bullet inside the case.

 

[Bart B.]

Here's a 400-40X score shot at 50 yards from my Anschutz 1911 in 2006 with Eley Tenex ammo made in 1982. The ammo was originaly packaged in cardboard boxes inside another cardboard box with 9 others and plenty of environmental air got to the wax on the bullets. I don't think that old wax caused any problems.

The outer 10 ring's .391" diameter; about 8/10ths MOA in size.

 

[777funk]

Driftwood, I'm ignorant when it comes to ammo mfg but I don't see or feel any wax on bulk ammo. I've even torn one down and still saw no wax (just the copper jacket and that's it). This is the ammo I'm talking about when I'm saying home-made 'wax dipped'.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Driftwood, I'm ignorant when it comes to ammo mfg but I don't see or feel any wax on bulk ammo. I've even torn one down and still saw no wax (just the copper jacket and that's it). This is the ammo I'm talking about when I'm saying home-made 'wax dipped'.

Are talking 22 Rimfire here? I just went downstairs and scraped some wax off of Federal Bulk Pack 22 Long Rifle hollow points and CCI Mini Mag hollow points. Not much on the Federals, a little bit thicker on the CCI. Scraping my thumbnail on the bullets produced a fine curl of white wax. You don't need a whole lot of wax to lubricate a modern 22, the manufacturers put plenty on.

Once upon a time, most bullets were like modern 22 rimfire bullets. The bullet diameter was the same as the outside diameter of the shell. There was a narrower 'heel' at the rear of the bullet that was inserted into the shell. The shell was crimped around this heel. Yank a 22 bullet out of its case and you will see what I am talking about. This style of bullet carried its bullet lube on the outside of the bullet, where it would be in contact with the rifling in the bore. Way back in the 1850s and 1860s the wax used for Black Powder was soft and sticky, it had to be to be used with Black Powder. So bullets of this type tended to pick up dirt and other contamination, which found its way into the bore.

In the early 1870s the Russian Government dangled a big contract in front of Smith and Wesson for a large order of 44 caliber revolvers. But the Russians were well aware of the dirt and grit that heeled bullets attracted, so they stipulated the ammo for their revolvers have bullets that did not carry the lube on the outside where it was exposed to the elements. S&W came up with a new 44 caliber cartridge, that carried its lube in grooves near the rear of the bullet. The bullet was reduced in diameter to match the inside diameter of the cartridge, not the outside. When assembled, the lube was trapped in the grooves which were hidden inside the cartridge. When the round was fired, the lube in the grooves came in contact with the rifling. The ammo was dubbed the 44 Russian round, it was the first to use a modern 'inside lubed' bullet, which soon replaced the old heeled bullets.

Incidentally, reducing the diameter of the bullet is the reason that most '44' caliber ammo actually uses .429 diameter bullets.

 

[bhk]

Driftwood, I'm ignorant when it comes to ammo mfg but I don't see or feel any wax on bulk ammo. I've even torn one down and still saw no wax (just the copper jacket and that's it). This is the ammo I'm talking about when I'm saying home-made 'wax dipped'.

Yep, all .22 rimfire short, long, and long rifle ammo is lubed. Even the cheap bulk stuff is. The lube over copper-washed ammo is often lacquer-like and often hard to detect, but it is there. Without the lube, .22 rimfires (even the copper-washed stuff) would lead the barrel terribly.

 

[777funk]

thank you bhk. I didn't know this. I'll get a razor blade out and see if I can scrape any residue off of one of the bullets. I do know for sure that the wax I put on there was obvious and I'm sure left a coating on the barrel.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I have seen at least one thread complaining of horrible leading of Remington Thunderbolt lead bullet .22 in a fairly new Ruger 10/22 barrel. As in pushing out a tube of lead by tapping a tightly fitting cleanbing rod through the barrel. The ammo was described as having dry bullets.

I remember obviously wax coated .22 ammo, and I recall some brand advertising a Luballoy: the copper plating was formulated to serve as lubrication. Most .22s have wax in the grooves or stippling on the bearing surface of the bullet whether plain lead or copper plated or gilding metal ("golden") plated.

Obviously wax on the nose of a bullet never touches the bore and is unnecessary: the flat part of the bullet that touches the bore should be the part that is lubed. Dipping is just the fastest and easiest way of consistently lubing the bullets.

 

[jpwilly]

I've used white lightning bike lube to lubricate 22lr bullets for a few years now and it's easy since it comes out as a thin liquid then as it drys you get a nice thin wax layer left behind. It's bike chain lube and can be found at wally world in the bike section.