Has anyone heard of "The Retirement Gun Business Guide"?

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

CyberRon

Member
Joined
May 2, 2011
Messages
25
Let us know what you find out. I've a friend with a retail store and he's wanting me to set up a "store within a store" to sell guns, it'd mostly be consignment sales and Internet transfers.

I'm retired. Another complication is how any income you get might affect your Social Security benefits (which I am deferring for the time being) but its something I need to consider.

Low priority idea for me at the moment, but something I keep an eye out for relevant information.
 
If you are 67, you are considered to have reached full retirement age and limits don't apply at that age. Sky's the limit.
 
Two people here locally have "retired" into guns. One guy has a small shop in his garage, where he has a good selection of mostly handguns. He will order anything you want at cost, then add 10% and a transfer fee. He is very open and honest with his prices and is often lower than most other places. He also sells at gun shows.

Another man recently opened up a full service gun shop as his "retirement". He has a good new and used selection, as well as good selection of ammo, scopes, accessories, and reloading equipment and supplies. He always likes to trade and customer service is usually very good.

Both seem to be doing well.

So there are two local guys that have used an FFL to their advantage in retirement. I don't know anything about the book, but other people have already done it.
 
There are a few people selling complete guides to the process. I am seriously considering a second gun carrier when I am eligible for full retirement from my current employer.

Mike
 
Arizona_Mike There are a few people selling complete guides to the process. I am seriously considering a second gun carrier when I am eligible for full retirement from my current employer.
Click to expand...
Why pay $$$$ for what ATF will tell you for free.
There are dozens of licensed dealers on this forum that offer better advice than this book and FFL123456.;)
 
The FFL's I've used for transfers both got their FFL's after "retiring" from another profession.

The current FFL I use in Oregon operates out of his home and sells guns as well as doing transfers. He is open from 10am to 5 pm Tuesday - Friday. However, since he operates out of his house people drop by at all times to try to pick up their gun. The last time I was there it was at the end of the day and he had done more than 30 transfers.

The guy I used in Alabama operated out of an office he rented in a small insurance agency. He is open 11 am to 3 pm Tuesday - Thursday. Those are his hours and he isn't there outside of those hours. The insurance company is there to sign for deliveries when he isn't in the office.

So one guy "retired" to a full time job and other works 4 hours / 3 days per week.
 
Chisos said:
If you are 67, you are considered to have reached full retirement age and limits don't apply at that age. Sky's the limit.
Click to expand...


^^^This, however if you haven't yet reached your full retirement age and you are taking benefits you're limited to just over $15k per year in earned income. Anything over that, you're docked one dollar for every two dollars you earn.

If you've deferred Social Security benefits, there is no limit regardless of your age.
 
dogtown tom said:
Why pay $$$$ for what ATF will tell you for free.
There are dozens of licensed dealers on this forum that offer better advice than this book and FFL123456.;)
Click to expand...
I was not weighing in on the value of these services for or against. Retirement is still a little over the horizon for me.

Mike
 
I've known a few people who ran gun businesses out of their homes while they also worked a day job. Every one of them eventually dropped their licenses after mild suggestions from the ATF that they do so. The fees went up substantially, as did the threat of constant inspections of their homes and records. They made it clear that they were trying to reduce the number of businesses operating out of homes. One guy said an agent flat out told him that was the goal. Not sure I'd want to subject myself and my family to that kind of intrusiveness from the government, just to run a legal business.

If you choose to, though, more power to you.
I'll just stick to music.
 
PJSprog I've known a few people who ran gun businesses out of their homes while they also worked a day job. Every one of them eventually dropped their licenses after mild suggestions from the ATF that they do so.
Click to expand...
The only reason an ATF IOI would suggest dropping or turning in your FFL is if there were substantial problems with the licenses recordkeeping.





The fees went up substantially,
Click to expand...
No, they haven't. As previously mentioned, its $200 for the first three years, $90 for each three year renewal after that. Any FFL who says they went out of business because of "the fees" isn't telling you the truth.






as did the threat of constant inspections of their homes and records.
Click to expand...
That's funny, 'cause Federal law limits ATF to no more than ONE compliance inspection PER YEAR. The vast majority of licensees don't even get that once a year visit.....I've had a whopping total of ONE inspection since 2008!!!!






They made it clear that they were trying to reduce the number of businesses operating out of homes. One guy said an agent flat out told him that was the goal.
Click to expand...
Horsehockey.:banghead:
The overwhelming majority of FFL's operate out of their homes. There is nothing in any Federal law or ATF regulation that allows an ATF employee to deny or revoke an FFL because of where the business is located.
If you can legally operate a business from a cardboard box in your backyard.....ATF is required to issue you a license.





Not sure I'd want to subject myself and my family to that kind of intrusiveness from the government, just to run a legal business.
Click to expand...
Intrusive?
Not.
 
Thanks dogtown tom. It is nice to see the perspective from someone that actually has a FFL.
 
I like what dogtown tom has to say.

Back around 1990 I got an FFL. My wife came into a small chunk of money and we decided to start a small gun business working shows. We operated out of home in residential Bedford Heights, Ohio a Cleveland suburb. Even back then get your FFL kits were being advertised. Got the forms and completed the forms and sent in the then $30 fee. You don't need an advertised kit to get an FFL.

Well our small business grew. The original FFL was in my name only. We moved to a brick and mortar shop and obtained a new FFL as the old was expiring and the change of address. Alas the Clinton years and rest assured Clinton wreaked havoc. The new FFL added my wife Kathy and we both had to go to the local police station and get fingerprinted for the application. The cost was also increasing, I forget what we paid. They did ask questions as to how guns would be stored and rumor control did say they were looking to eliminate FFL license holders who did business over the kitchen table. It was BS as my brother in law working from his home in W. Va. had no problems. Matter of fact Mike maintained his FFL till he passed away a few years ago.

Kathy and I did well with the gun business and eventually sold it. Our real jobs were also demanding and I just was not about to leave a job with a pension and great benefits as an electrical engineer, the pay was excellent also and Kathy was managing a small TV station at the time. We both retired a few years ago from those jobs.

Anyway, if you want an FFL just call ATF and get the application or by now it is likely online. You do not need the same stupid kits that were being hyped decades ago. As to the income thing? No big deal.

Ron
 
dogtown tom:

The only reason an ATF IOI would suggest dropping or turning in your FFL is if there were substantial problems with the licenses recordkeeping.
Click to expand...

It's undeniable that in the late 1980's, the ATF had a campaign to drastically reduce the number of "kitchen table" FFL's. For one thing, they began to strictly coordinate with local zoning and home-occupation regulations, as well as business-license and sales tax requirements. If you weren't allowed, under a strict reading of these regulations, to conduct a gun business in your home, you weren't issued an FFL. (That was a change from the previous policy, under which only a pro-forma check was made.) And yes, the fees did go up, from $30 a year to $200 for the first 3 years. This campaign was successful and the number of FFL's was diminished considerably. I myself came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth it to maintain my license, since my gun business was a small sideline. It's not as though the gun business, in general, is particularly lucrative in any case.

It's a completely different story if you live in a rural area with no local zoning regulations and no limits as to what kind of business you can run out of your home. Most people, however, live in built-up urban areas.

I would say that, for someone thinking about starting a gun business in retirement, developing a viable business plan has a higher priority than even applying for a license. The economics have to make sense, or you're just wasting your time. Don't make the mistake of confusing your hobby for a business. Hobbies don't usually have reference to a bottom line.
 
AlexanderA
dogtown tom:Quote:
The only reason an ATF IOI would suggest dropping or turning in your FFL is if there were substantial problems with the licenses recordkeeping.
Click to expand...

It's undeniable that in the late 1980's, the ATF had a campaign to drastically reduce the number of "kitchen table" FFL's. For one thing, they began to strictly coordinate with local zoning and home-occupation regulations, as well as business-license and sales tax requirements. If you weren't allowed, under a strict reading of these regulations, to conduct a gun business in your home, you weren't issued an FFL. (That was a change from the previous policy, under which only a pro-forma check was made.) And yes, the fees did go up, from $30 a year to $200 for the first 3 years. This campaign was successful and the number of FFL's was diminished considerably.
Click to expand...
No argument there.
I have around twenty customers who held an FFL prior to 1988 (and no longer do)......every single one of them readily admits they applied for that FFL for personal use. They had no intention of being a gun dealer and in essence lied when they filled out the FFL application.

Understand that there is a difference between a supposed war on kitchen table dealers and requiring dealers to abide by local/state/federal law.

If you do some reading on that crackdown on dealers in the '80's you'll discover that nearly all were given the option of getting legal (as in abiding by local laws, getting a sales tax permit or business license) or voluntarily surrendering their FFL. Actual revocations were very few.





I would say that, for someone thinking about starting a gun business in retirement, developing a viable business plan has a higher priority than even applying for a license.
Click to expand...
I agree 100%.
It is a shock to those who discover that "dealer markup" on firearms is around 5% on firearms. Then when they discover that Bud's, Palmetto, Kentucky Gun Co all sell for less then your dealer cost they wonder why the got their FFL.
 
dogtown tom said:
...

It is a shock to those who discover that "dealer markup" on firearms is around 5% on firearms. Then when they discover that Bud's, Palmetto, Kentucky Gun Co all sell for less then your dealer cost they wonder why the got their FFL.
Click to expand...

I was smiling while reading about concerns over having to pay income tax on the extra income received by virtue of the FFL retirement business. Especially with the internet competition involved, it can be a real struggle for a small licensed dealer to make a 10% gross profit on a new firearm sale, that is IF/WHEN you can find a decent 'dealer price' from a distributor who actually has the desired firearm in stock and available.

On more than one sale I have ended up making less on the transaction than the state did through the sales tax. Significant money may well come into your business, but it is not easy to show a healthy net profit for the first year or two. A $5,000 budget for inventory does not go very far if you want to have some firearms on hand for potential buyers to look over and handle.
 
dogtown tom:

I have around twenty customers who held an FFL prior to 1988 (and no longer do)......every single one of them readily admits they applied for that FFL for personal use. They had no intention of being a gun dealer and in essence lied when they filled out the FFL application.

Understand that there is a difference between a supposed war on kitchen table dealers and requiring dealers to abide by local/state/federal law.

If you do some reading on that crackdown on dealers in the '80's you'll discover that nearly all were given the option of getting legal (as in abiding by local laws, getting a sales tax permit or business license) or voluntarily surrendering their FFL. Actual revocations were very few.
Click to expand...

The problem is that there is no bright line between trading guns as a hobby and doing so as a business. The ATF doesn't care whether you show a profit or not. I suppose the volume of transactions can be an indication, but again there is no hard-and-fast rule. A hobbyist can easily get in trouble if the ATF determines that his activities amount to "dealing without a license." Therefore, people, when in doubt, would go ahead and apply for an FFL. Prior to the late 1980's, this was no big deal. Better to be safe than sorry.

In my case, I was very careful to dot all my "i's" and cross all my "t's" -- zoning, business license, sales tax, etc. I could have kept my license if I had wanted to. I finally came to the conclusion that my volume of transactions didn't justify the recordkeeping and the potential for ATF inspections, etc. I also wasn't comfortable keeping public hours and inviting strangers into my home. This was a big security vulnerability.
 
Post 19 hits it on the head. Since you are operating a business you will need a business license, pay sales tax to the State, comply with zoning laws, have your home/store insured, do tax with holdings on your wages, etc. Since in America anyone can be sued having several million dollars of insurance is a must in case of a accident with a gun you sold of by victims of a violent crime with a greedy lawyer.
 
Yes, I can think of many businesses with more potential for profit, and fewer headaches and downsides, than the gun business. Again, do not make the mistake of confusing a hobby with a business. Especially not in the gun field. That said, I salute those dealers that can actually make a go of it.
 
Thanks all for you responses!

I definitely didn't think it through. That's why it's good to bounce this stuff off the forum!
I would have wasted my money and gotten more frustration than enjoyment out of the FFL...

Glad I had someone to bounce this off of...
:)
 
No offence, but the world is full of people who will tell you "can't be done." Plan the work--work the plan. Work smarter--not harder. Not just cute sayings...it's how I roll. If it's what you want to do, you need to find people who have done it and talk to them...then do it.
 
callmechaz said:
No offence, but the world is full of people who will tell you "can't be done." Plan the work--work the plan. Work smarter--not harder. Not just cute sayings...it's how I roll. If it's what you want to do, you need to find people who have done it and talk to them...then do it.
Click to expand...

No offense but while your words of encouragement are nice and all the thread is over a year old and the original poster has not been in these forums in over a year.

Ron
 
Reloadron said:
No offense but while your words of encouragement are nice and all the thread is over a year old and the original poster has not been in these forums in over a year.

Ron
Click to expand...
I admit that I retired into guns and knives. I started my own training company. The first thins I did was to associate with Mas Ayoob then go to town buying guns and knives and going t lots of training. I started at 67 and am now 74 and having a blast.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

BreechFace
  • Locked
Help for Burn-Out - RMR Employee
Replies
21
Views
2K
Trey Veston
Trey Veston
george burns
  • Locked
Here are 7 critical lessons for anyone who owns or carries a gun.
2
Replies
41
Views
2K
Walkalong
Walkalong
D
  • Locked
Senate “background checks” are anything but; ban anyone but owner from touching gun a
Replies
13
Views
797
HankR
H
R
  • Locked
What the hitchhikers guide has to say on gunshows.
Replies
9
Views
1K
bogie
B
H
  • Locked
Comprehensive Guide To Gun Shows:
Replies
4
Views
994
Rexrider
R
Back
Top