Has anyone ordered or received an order from Eric at HBE leather?

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I post on 6 gun forums and everyone of them has a running thread on HBE's broken promises. I cannot believe anyone would still order anything from a company like this no matter how good the quality is. I've had it happen once with Ranger Gunleather and will not order from anyone who wants your money months before the projected delivery day. Luckily I was able to call my CC company to reverse the charges. Mike
 
Late last night Eric Larsen posted a message on DefensiveCarry.com (formerly CombatCarry.com). Because of his internet troubles he may not have been able to get on to THR, so I am taking the liberty of posting his comments in full.

Well....Ill keep this as short and sweet as I can. Bumper and the rest of you.....
Well guys this sucks...my past has caught up with me. Due to medical bills with my son and not being able to afford medical insurance, being self employed for so long......
Ive had a quandry going on with my morals and my head.
I had to file bankruptcy.
I had to add my business since Im a Sole Proprietership according to my attorney.
I didnt want to do this and still dont want to...

The simple truth is my finances are so beyond SCREWED because of this that I dont know what to do.

My website is NOT down because Im out of business and Im still not able to get my email like I stated months ago. My site will be back up next week after we fix a problem...........ok.

As far as my cell phone goes....my daughter has had my phone for a while and has called me with #'s and I return them as I can. I will get back with most of you by this weekend. So please forgive my lack of communication. Ive had to shuffle things around lately and its taken its tole.

Im working a full time job trying to pay the bills and not lose what Ive got left and am still making holsters in the evenings and such.

I will get back with all of you...please be patient. Because of my cell not being with me, my site being down and so on....ALOT or MOST of you are saying "What the F@*K As@#*le? Or you think Im a bonifed thief?! No...just an idiot! Ive never been or will be a thief! You will all get your leather!

This is as simple as I can tell you guys. I ended up owing over 250,000$ in medical bills due to a lack of medical insurance, that I COULD NOT afford! They wanted more than I actually made some months, for it. It bit me.......HUGE!

Lack of planning, poor business sense! Or what ever you want to call it......I guess so. Hind sight is better than.

Heres the situation as of today. Due to my finances Im working fulltime doing something I never thought Id do...but its paying the bills..at least I hope it is. I got my phone back from my daughter and will be in touch with all who have called and left messages by this weekend. I AM NOT TAKING ORDERS and am just working on existing stuff until its done.

Please bare with me...........if you want to call me. Please do so...I will answer the phone or call you back! Just dont call me until after 5pm mountain time.

This bankruptcy thing has left me morally, spiritually and physically ill.

My lack of communication with the world can be taken as me running away from all of this and YOU! Well..that is partly true. Ive never been in this situation and havent done all that I could to keep you all abreast of the situation.

But I will be in touch with those of you who have tried to get in touch with me.

Again, please call me in the evening or even write me. And once again.....Im sorry and Im dancing as fast as I can.

My prayers go out to all of you..........thanks for all of your support over the years.

Eric Larsen........................
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ADDITIONAL INFO

Unfortunately my internet has been down all morning so that I could not post the latest news. Eric called me this morning at about 7:30 Central time. We had a lengthy conversation about his situation. Here is what he proposes to do: 1) He will call each customer who is owed holsters or other equipment. 2) He will supply each customer with the items that the customer has paid for. Please keep us informed as to whether you get a phone call and concerning whether you get your holsters.

Because the personal finances the owner of a sole proprietorship and the business finances of a sole proprietorship are legally entangled there are things that cannot be done due to the bankruptcy. The owner and the business are protected from creditors and all payments have to be in accordance with the bankruptcy proceedings. To make a refund would violate the agreement. Under these circumstances Eric has no choice as to whether to give a refund or not. He cannot.

Again please keep us informed of any contact you have with Eric so that others here can know what is going on.

My personal position on this is wait and see. Eric has a history of failing to follow through on his promises. I fervently hope that he will come through this time, but I have to see evidence first. Feel free to continue to send me information at hbeproblems at bellsouth.net and I will retain the info should the unfortunate time arise that it is needed. Thanks.
 
I've had it happen once with Ranger Gunleather and will not order from anyone who wants your money months before the projected delivery day.
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Milt Sparks doesn't charge your credit card until your holster is finished and ready to be shipped.

:)

p.s. No, I don't work for Milt Sparks. I'm just a satisfied customer.
 
Because the personal finances the owner of a sole proprietorship and the business finances of a sole proprietorship are legally entangled there are things that cannot be done due to the bankruptcy. The owner and the business are protected from creditors and all payments have to be in accordance with the bankruptcy proceedings. To make a refund would violate the agreement. Under these circumstances Eric has no choice as to whether to give a refund or not. He cannot.
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I didn't think one could dispose of any property during a bankruptcy, particularly the goods upon which an involved business is based. So, wouldn't the same agreement that barred refunds bar his sending holsters, etc?
 
Buzz, I'm not an expert on bankruptcy, but I don't see how a business could ever come out of bankruptcy without being able to do business. I would think that the agreement would have to allow the business to continue to produce and sell it's products in order for anyone to have any hope of recovering their money. When an airline files for bankruptcy they keep flying. When Chrysler went bankrupt in the '80s they kept making and selling cars. I think that the business could not dispose of assets without court approval and I understand that to mean to dispose of them in any way other than as manufactured products. Maybe someone else here is more knowledgeable about bankruptcy procedures than I am.
 
Oh, Boohoo.....first, it was because he was moving his shop; then, it was because of his divorce; now, it's because of medical bills.........

Please.:mad: Pick a story and stick with it......it will at least make you sound more credible. What next? he was abducted by aliens?

I do have one of his holsters; I had to wait close to 9 months to get it and threaten calling the A.G. of Utah and the BBB. After I did that, I finally got a response.:fire: He asks that we please be patient.......some of you have been waiting almost 2 years for your holsters! How much more patient should you be?

It's a nice sob story, but thats about is as far as I am concerned.......:barf:
 
Buzz, I'm not an expert on bankruptcy, but I don't see how a business could ever come out of bankruptcy without being able to do business.
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Some have structures put in place that allow them to do business in order to get out of bankruptcy. Others go into bankruptcy and end up being sold off to pay the creditors. It all depends on the nature of the business, how the creditors want to handle things, and what the court decides to do.
 
After reading his explanation on defensivecarry.com, I posted a response agreeing to wait for Mr. Larsen to contact me; but I had forgotten about those who have waited nearly two years for their gear. Was he going bankrupt then? It leaves me inclined to agree with Mr. 16 Gauge. Mr. Larsen has had a plethora of excuses, all lined with self-deprecating commentary that seems like an effort to evoke pity and to stall. I guess all any of us can do for the time being is wait and see if he gets in touch and offers to do something substantial to rectify the matter. Truth is, however, I'm not optimistic...
 
I see this problem increasing at an alarming rate. Master craftsmen of all trades are going under because of a lack of business management education...


RNB365: Everyone knows of Milt Sparks. Your constant plugging of that company in a thread pertaining to HBE Leatherworks has went far past simply annoying.
 
Having gone through that whole process ...

He has protection from reasonable debts which will probably include your orders. What you have is a word of mouth promise from him which he will not be law-bound to keep, and if he has filed he is not law-bound to send you a check. Personally, I'd just let go and consider it a charitable contribution.

I feel sorry for his debts and his son's illness, but I also feel angry hearing that he wants to get his website back up and running. If you have a website selling your products, doesn't that mean you are taking orders? And if they place orders you know they won't recieve what they paid for ... which would mean that his website is fraudulent ... and gun-related fraudulent sites are something I really hate.

None of my business, I suppose ... but I feel for the poor schmucks who will be finding his site and placing orders.
 
Well now. Mr 16 Guage....yep, its all bull****! Just more excuses from me.....say what you want. Scream it from the highest rooftops if you want. It doesnt matter anymore. Nothing I say or do will change your point of view and I know that....so tear it up.

Lance...The simple truth is HBE is pretty much done for now and I dont know if it will ever be back! I will get everyone there leather and I AM NOT TAKING NEW ORDERS! Im leaving my website up so I can pass on information to my customers and frankly it took me years to acquire all of the pics and dont want to lose them either. If in the future it gets to the point that I cannot or dont want to salvage HBE....I will pull the website.

ask.....hell yes! I should have taken a remedial business course from the git go...
I started this years ago and if I new then what I know now....this thread wouldnt exist!
Im the first to admit that my managment skills are being found wanting! I suspect that around 200 of my customers are feeling the same way.

As far as being 2 years out.....I sincerely hope not! The farthest order I have out right now is coming up on a year.

There will no orders taken until I get caught up with current orders...and thats gonna be a bloody while. If I take anymore in the future is very much up in the air right now.

Shoot well and god bless
 
Hello Mr. Larson.

This is Jim Chapman and I would like to remind you that I placed my order on April 10, 2006 and that is over 14 months ago. When we last spoke in April 2007 you said I would get my order in 1 week. Repeated attempts to get a hold of you have come up with absolutely nothing but an unanswered voice mail or a full voice mail box.
I hope you get your problems worked out but I would like you to live up to your agreement.
Thank you.
 
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Well, Eric, the fact of the matter is you didn't return my emails or calls until I made mention of looking for legal action on another website, so that kinda makes me wonder....I'm not the one with angry people on a half dozen gun websites looking for my head on a platter. And once again, it took someone to threaten legal action with the Utah A.G. in order to get YOU to respond to people that have been bitching about YOU not returning phone calls/emails

As far as being 2 years out.....I sincerely hope not! The farthest order I have out right now is coming up on a year.
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I would like to remind you that I placed my order on April 10, 2006 and that is over 14 months ago. When we last spoke in April 2007 you said I would get my order in 1 week. Repeated attempts to get a hold of you have come up with absolutly nothing but an unanswered voice mail or a full voice mail box.
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Hmmmm....guess that kinda speaks volumes now, doesn't it. You've had many, many opportunities to make this right and haven't done so, and now you have bankruptcy protection on your side. I'm willing to bet that these threads will continue into the future. Until such time as I see that everyone has been satisfied and either received their holster or a refund, you can keep your pity party to yourself.
 
Good to see you back Eric.

I am sorry to learn of your continued difficulties, and more so, so that you've had them scrutinized publicly. Needless to say, I hope your son's well now too.

As for my order, I am content continuing to wait for your craftsmanship.
 
Hi Eric,
I do not have a holster on order, but wanted to say a couple of things.

It is obvious that you are not a good business man, and have made some serious mistakes that will take you years to recover from, if ever.

Other than outright dishonesty, which I do not think you are guilty of, the one thing that will ruin a business is for the owner to fail to do that which he has promised. For whatever reason you have also failed in this area. It always catches up with you it just a matter of when.

Now is a time to recover if you have the character, and although it will take time you can do it.
One should always remember that everything you have can be taken from you, except your integrity. You have to give that up.

There are some skeptics (with good cause) on the forums who have ordered from you. But it is up to you whether you build a future with a good reputation or not.

I sincerely hope you will recover and be able to rebuild your business, and gain a reputation for both great work, and integrity. It is in your hands.

Best,
Jerry
 
It is remarkable how quickly Eric surfaced when folks started talking seriously about legal recourse.

I still have one burning question: Why are there some people that placed orders well after me (and others) and have received their holster months ago??

Sadly, Eric Larsen will always be known more as a man of a million excuses than for his leather. Is this another one? Probably. I just want him to redeem himself.. his integrity.. and then go away.
 
Not to hit anyone while they're down, but November 2005 here and no holster, response or refund. You can keep it if it helps you work out your personal issues. I raised myself and persevered through challenges that I wish on no one (that would obviously make you sh*t in your pants). So, now that you have my money to do with as you wish, get some integrity and move forward. Maybe my compassion will help you out since it's rare and the little bit that I got when I needed it was invaluable. Please don't feel it necessary to contact me - it isn't.
 
well, I shouldn't jump into this, but here I go...

I have purchased several holsters from Eric Larson. This was a couple of years ago, before the blessing/curse of fame struck HBE Leatherworks. I must testify that in my experience, Mr. Eric Larsen has been friendly, helpful, and has done what he agreed to do, and when he agreed to do it. His leatherwork has been of absolutely outstanding quality, and were I to order more holsters, he would be the first one I would turn to...

Were it not for current developments.

I have been following the saga of HBE leatherworks over the last couple of years with great sadness. I have seen a pattern I understand all too well from my own experience. I do hope Mr. Larsen eventually deals with his daemons, and can in time continue to produce his excellent leatherwork. In the mean time, he appears to have dug himself a rather large hole, and to have realized that the first thing to do in that situation is to stop digging (i.e. stop taking new orders).

So, don't be too hard on Mr. Larsen. There, but for the grace of God go you or I. Trust me, it ain't that simple!

My gut feeling is that those of you who have ordered holsters will eventually get them, albiet not on time by a long shot. I still have hope that Eric will do the right thing eventually. When and as he can. To this day I believe he is basically a moral person.

And that's all I'm going to say.

Albert
 
Well, so much for pessimism. Mr. Larsen did in fact phone me Thursday night and left a message. I phoned him back yesterday evening and spoke with him at length. As I've already posted on other forums, I truly believe he's had a really bad turn of luck; I also am convinced he intends to make things right. I base that impression on how sincere he sounded and how people who know him much better than I do write so positively about him. And the truth of it is, despite the presumptuous and sometimes unflattering things I've thought and written about the man, my gut tells me that he naturally possesses the impulse to "do the right thing" even if it did require a lot of bad press to motivate him. I think that if Mr. Larsen so chooses, HBE Leatherworks will eventually be back and stronger than ever. I think it would be a shame if it weren't.
 
Well....let me explain something. Bankruptcy or not...I have no choice but to do my business this way as of now. Yes, Ive made ALOT of excuses for being late in the past. Seriously...

Ive stated in the past that most of the problems I have encountered were my fault to one extent or another.

I dont want a pitty party....the matter of fact is "**** happens" and Ive reached a point where I choose to quit doing what Ive been doing, the way Ive done it! There are those of you who wont respect that and think Im just full of it....well, who the hell am I to say I dont deserve that point of view! I wont try and change you minds.

Guys....I lost my professionalism and integrity a while ago. Bankruptcy just helped me pull my head out of my ass and realize what I had been doing....
Im not proud of it....and I dont want your sympathy nor do I deserve it.

So tear me up...threaten me with law suits/beatings/beat my pets...none of it matters to me anymore. But you will all get your leather.

DONT EMAIL ME...but if you have an order with me that you are concerned about....please call me. 801-916-9248

Shoot well and god bless
 
I agree with st albert. When Eric lets us know he is back in the saddle I intend to order from him. No other holster I have seen equals his quality. I waited 10 months for mine and it was worth it, not that I wasn't frustrated. I give him my support that he will be back.

God Bless
 
Wow, this is a little annoying. I see this thread, and start reading it. The further I get in, the more I get a feeling of "Well, I shouldn't expect it to arrive on any particular date, but it sounds like this guy makes a heck of a holster if I'm willing to wait." Then, I get to these last 2 pages, and I find out I can't order one! Well, it's probably for the better...less frustrating at least!
 
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