Has anyone ordered or received an order from Eric at HBE leather?
- Thread starter Fat_46
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Facts
On June 13, 2007 I posted a message asking for info from members of this forum who were waiting for holsters from Mr. Larsen. On June 14 I posted a copy of a message that Mr. Larsen had posted on DefensiveCarry.com. Below is a copy of a message that I just posted on DefensiveCarry. I believe that members here deserve to know the facts as much as members on DefensiveCarry do.
As stated in the message quoted above I am again asking for information so that I can provide it to the two venues listed. Thank you.
On June 13, 2007 I posted a message asking for info from members of this forum who were waiting for holsters from Mr. Larsen. On June 14 I posted a copy of a message that Mr. Larsen had posted on DefensiveCarry.com. Below is a copy of a message that I just posted on DefensiveCarry. I believe that members here deserve to know the facts as much as members on DefensiveCarry do.
As stated in the message quoted above I am again asking for information so that I can provide it to the two venues listed. Thank you.
PCRCCW
Member
In reply.........
Dr and the forum....
Everything the Dr stated above is quite true... Or it was over 2 years ago! I am in a Chptr 13....anyone who knows me personally knows that situation and Ill tell anyone who wants to know.
Years ago I got into trouble, mainly with past due taxes that I couldnt pay after I got laid off from my sales job.. Its also when I started doing holsters full time and had 0 income.
The last change/court date you bring up wasnt for a change in employment. Its because I wasnt making enough money to make my bankruptcy payments and they dont like it when you cant pay for it...and want to dismiss it. I hope this makes sense to you guys....I stopped taking orders because I was so far behind...thus had no income and couldnt make the payments on time. Thus looking for a job. Ive been employed for just over 4 weeks....well over a month after my last court date, just for the record.
If you look more into bankruptcy law...you will find that I cannot add onto a bankruptcy past a certain point....typically 90 days after the date of filing. That being the fact...I cannot add anything to my current bankruptcy and that brings me to my CURRENT situation.
Im in the process of is converting the present 13 to a Chptr 7. This takes time to compile the necessary documents and information my attorney needs from me and it has substantial attornies fees, court costs etc..for the conversion. Ive had 2 mtg's with my attorney and have a couple more left before he can submit the final paperwork to the courts.
Dr.... Im not a thief and like Ive stated before...just ran my business like an idiot! Ive not committed a crime, not in the past, not now and not in the future.
I havent lied to you guys about anything. The only thing Im guilty of is making bad business decisions and admittedly....making a hell of alot of excuses for those bad decisions in the past. That is NOT the case anymore....Ive admitted final defeat! No excuses or BS. Ive promised Id call everyone back who calls me and Ive done that.
Ive also promised everyone will get there leather and I will do that to.
Look...simply put guys. Nope I havent been honest with you guys all of the time in the past! My ability to make some leather you guys like...doesnt mean I know how to run a business and not screw it up. I did screw it up and made alot of excuses for it.
With that history...maybe I wouldnt trust me anymore either. I dont know.
In the meantime....you can submit whatever you want to whomever you want. Its completely up to you. Regardless...I wish you the best.
Shoot well and god bless
Eric
Dr and the forum....
Everything the Dr stated above is quite true... Or it was over 2 years ago! I am in a Chptr 13....anyone who knows me personally knows that situation and Ill tell anyone who wants to know.
Years ago I got into trouble, mainly with past due taxes that I couldnt pay after I got laid off from my sales job.. Its also when I started doing holsters full time and had 0 income.
The last change/court date you bring up wasnt for a change in employment. Its because I wasnt making enough money to make my bankruptcy payments and they dont like it when you cant pay for it...and want to dismiss it. I hope this makes sense to you guys....I stopped taking orders because I was so far behind...thus had no income and couldnt make the payments on time. Thus looking for a job. Ive been employed for just over 4 weeks....well over a month after my last court date, just for the record.
If you look more into bankruptcy law...you will find that I cannot add onto a bankruptcy past a certain point....typically 90 days after the date of filing. That being the fact...I cannot add anything to my current bankruptcy and that brings me to my CURRENT situation.
Im in the process of is converting the present 13 to a Chptr 7. This takes time to compile the necessary documents and information my attorney needs from me and it has substantial attornies fees, court costs etc..for the conversion. Ive had 2 mtg's with my attorney and have a couple more left before he can submit the final paperwork to the courts.
Dr.... Im not a thief and like Ive stated before...just ran my business like an idiot! Ive not committed a crime, not in the past, not now and not in the future.
I havent lied to you guys about anything. The only thing Im guilty of is making bad business decisions and admittedly....making a hell of alot of excuses for those bad decisions in the past. That is NOT the case anymore....Ive admitted final defeat! No excuses or BS. Ive promised Id call everyone back who calls me and Ive done that.
Ive also promised everyone will get there leather and I will do that to.
Look...simply put guys. Nope I havent been honest with you guys all of the time in the past! My ability to make some leather you guys like...doesnt mean I know how to run a business and not screw it up. I did screw it up and made alot of excuses for it.
With that history...maybe I wouldnt trust me anymore either. I dont know.
In the meantime....you can submit whatever you want to whomever you want. Its completely up to you. Regardless...I wish you the best.
Shoot well and god bless
Eric
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Eric, I stated that I could be wrong on the medical bills, because I don't know much about bankruptcy. It also seems to me that since you told me on the phone that you had taken a job and that coincided with the change by the court that change of employment was the way to express it.
Now let me ask a couple of questions. You state:
Second question. Chapter 7 Bankruptcy. According to the website for the US Bankruptcy Court page entitled: Chapter 7 - Liquidation Under the Bankruptcy Code -
I am not on a witchhunt, Mr. Larsen. I am simply a man who finding that I am not the only one in my position have tried to gather information that should have been provided to us long ago. After getting the information and digesting it I felt it my duty to provide it to those who needed to know. If I have erred in that you have my humble apology. I have not intentionally misrepresented you or your case as far as I know. If I have please let me know where and I will endeavor to correct any error.
Now let me ask a couple of questions. You state:
While this may be technically true, you certainly haven't been forthcoming. In your post on June 14 you state that you had to file bankruptcy. No explanations or qualifications attached. Of course everyone assumes that you meant recently. I doubt that anyone reading your comments would think that you had filed more than a few months prior to June 14. Why when you stated then that you were telling us everything did you manage to leave out the fact that the bankruptcy filing was over two years old?
Second question. Chapter 7 Bankruptcy. According to the website for the US Bankruptcy Court page entitled: Chapter 7 - Liquidation Under the Bankruptcy Code -
Why should we, after your "making a hell of alot of excuses", believe that your are going to live up to your promises? "Ive also promised everyone will get there leather and I will do that to." Chapter 7 Bankruptcy takes your assets and has the Trustee sell them and use to money as far as it goes toward payment of debts. When the money is gone all other debts are discharged and you have no liability for them. What assets are there for the Trustee to sell? Your holster making equipment? If these are sold how do you propose to make this leather you are promising to deliver?
I am not on a witchhunt, Mr. Larsen. I am simply a man who finding that I am not the only one in my position have tried to gather information that should have been provided to us long ago. After getting the information and digesting it I felt it my duty to provide it to those who needed to know. If I have erred in that you have my humble apology. I have not intentionally misrepresented you or your case as far as I know. If I have please let me know where and I will endeavor to correct any error.
PCRCCW
Member
Dr...no worries. Ill answer your questions..briefly if thats ok.
My past tax debt and other affairs werent part of the equation. Its like the rule of argueing with your spouse or kids. Dont bring up the past and stick to the matter at hand. My disclosure with all of you and other customers was honest and to the point with "the situation that Im facing currently that has to do with HBE, gun leather and their involvment"...nothing more.
I could have brought up the older Bankruptcy but why? Not being a smart ass...so please dont take it that way. I could have brought up any and all problems that Ive had over the last 20 years that may have led to this or contributed to it in even a minor way...but its just not relavent.
Like you Im not a bankruptcy expert...but what you call a liquidation doesnt pertain to this. It may be for LLC's or business only situations...I cant say.
I know this isnt the case for my situation.
And finally....I really stated earlier that I may not trust me either after all of this. But all I can do is what Im doing....making leather, not taking orders and communicating with my customers. What else is there to do?
Shoot well and god bless.........
My past tax debt and other affairs werent part of the equation. Its like the rule of argueing with your spouse or kids. Dont bring up the past and stick to the matter at hand. My disclosure with all of you and other customers was honest and to the point with "the situation that Im facing currently that has to do with HBE, gun leather and their involvment"...nothing more.
I could have brought up the older Bankruptcy but why? Not being a smart ass...so please dont take it that way. I could have brought up any and all problems that Ive had over the last 20 years that may have led to this or contributed to it in even a minor way...but its just not relavent.
Like you Im not a bankruptcy expert...but what you call a liquidation doesnt pertain to this. It may be for LLC's or business only situations...I cant say.
I know this isnt the case for my situation.
And finally....I really stated earlier that I may not trust me either after all of this. But all I can do is what Im doing....making leather, not taking orders and communicating with my customers. What else is there to do?
Shoot well and god bless.........
Mr. Larsen:
You might want to consult with your attorney again about what you can or cannot do with your current bankruptcy case. You can amend the schedules, add creditors, up to the point that the case is closed.
If you choose to convert to a Chapter 7, whether personal or for a sole proprietorship business, it is a liquidation. No company will emerge on the other side. You would have to surrender all but $2,000 worth of personal belongings (this includes your clothes, furniture, etc.) and anything otherwise exempt (like 401k savings). The trustee will then sell off, i.e., liquidate, your assets and pay creditors pro rata. Secured creditors and the government get paid first, unsecured creditors get paid pro rata what is left.
Customers are unsecured non-priority creditors. Of course, they are also unknown to the trustee unless they timely filed a proof of claim. If these debts were not listed in the bankrutpcy (and no notice provided to the customers), such debts are not going to be discharged by the bankruptcy. Small consolation though, since the business normally would come to an end.
Also, FYI, the documentation that you've filed with this current case, i.e., schedules, amended schedules, list of creditors, etc., etc., is available for public viewing.
You might want to consult with your attorney again about what you can or cannot do with your current bankruptcy case. You can amend the schedules, add creditors, up to the point that the case is closed.
If you choose to convert to a Chapter 7, whether personal or for a sole proprietorship business, it is a liquidation. No company will emerge on the other side. You would have to surrender all but $2,000 worth of personal belongings (this includes your clothes, furniture, etc.) and anything otherwise exempt (like 401k savings). The trustee will then sell off, i.e., liquidate, your assets and pay creditors pro rata. Secured creditors and the government get paid first, unsecured creditors get paid pro rata what is left.
Customers are unsecured non-priority creditors. Of course, they are also unknown to the trustee unless they timely filed a proof of claim. If these debts were not listed in the bankrutpcy (and no notice provided to the customers), such debts are not going to be discharged by the bankruptcy. Small consolation though, since the business normally would come to an end.
Also, FYI, the documentation that you've filed with this current case, i.e., schedules, amended schedules, list of creditors, etc., etc., is available for public viewing.
Had the same issues. I did end up with a nice holster, but I had to be a pill to get and start a thread just like this. Where's the popcorn.
I'm a UBG guy now, good quality, excellent communcation. He worked with me to build an IWB for my compact S&W CS40 Auto. His billing was not done until he started making my product. Highly recommended. Nate could easily take Eric's business and rightfully should.
I won't be ordering from Eric again, as much as I like his holsters, the frustration was not worth it. His business practices are unethical and I won't encourage those actions any more. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
I have worked with people like this before, and I can say with all honesty, it's always a joy to see them get what they deserve. Story this story that, you work so hard, blah, blah, blah. Suck it up and get it done and quit wasting my time trying to make me feel sorry for you. You run a business, act like it. If not, don't be surprised when it fails.
HBE is getting the respect (or notably, the lack) it deserves.
jeepmor
I'm a UBG guy now, good quality, excellent communcation. He worked with me to build an IWB for my compact S&W CS40 Auto. His billing was not done until he started making my product. Highly recommended. Nate could easily take Eric's business and rightfully should.
I won't be ordering from Eric again, as much as I like his holsters, the frustration was not worth it. His business practices are unethical and I won't encourage those actions any more. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
I have worked with people like this before, and I can say with all honesty, it's always a joy to see them get what they deserve. Story this story that, you work so hard, blah, blah, blah. Suck it up and get it done and quit wasting my time trying to make me feel sorry for you. You run a business, act like it. If not, don't be surprised when it fails.
HBE is getting the respect (or notably, the lack) it deserves.
jeepmor
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I Got My Holster from HBE
Today I got my holster and mag carrier from Eric. Right now it is sitting with a friend's Colt 80 series wrapped in wax paper resting in it. I cannot do a good review on it until I can get where the pistol will come out with a reasonable pull and will reholster without having to take the holster off. Eric's boning is such that the holster will have to loosen up a little before I can draw and holster without major effort. Photos Attached.
I am glad to have the holster, but at the same time I feel a little guilty because I know there are others who have been waiting longer. I guess the guilt is the reason that I am not really that excited about receiving the holster. Having to work so hard to get what was mine sort of takes the luster off. I think I would have been ecstatic if the holster had come in Feb., Mar., or April. I would have been excited if it had come in May. Getting it in June and posting as post 133 in a thread entitled "Has anyone ordered or received an order from Eric at HBE leather?" sort of puts a damper on the excitement.
I am not going to spend time discussing Eric's problems, customer service, or any other thing that have already been covered in this thread. I just ask others who are members here to be sure to post if you get a phone call from Eric about your order or if you receive your leather. We want to know about both.
Thanks.
Today I got my holster and mag carrier from Eric. Right now it is sitting with a friend's Colt 80 series wrapped in wax paper resting in it. I cannot do a good review on it until I can get where the pistol will come out with a reasonable pull and will reholster without having to take the holster off. Eric's boning is such that the holster will have to loosen up a little before I can draw and holster without major effort. Photos Attached.
I am glad to have the holster, but at the same time I feel a little guilty because I know there are others who have been waiting longer. I guess the guilt is the reason that I am not really that excited about receiving the holster. Having to work so hard to get what was mine sort of takes the luster off. I think I would have been ecstatic if the holster had come in Feb., Mar., or April. I would have been excited if it had come in May. Getting it in June and posting as post 133 in a thread entitled "Has anyone ordered or received an order from Eric at HBE leather?" sort of puts a damper on the excitement.
I am not going to spend time discussing Eric's problems, customer service, or any other thing that have already been covered in this thread. I just ask others who are members here to be sure to post if you get a phone call from Eric about your order or if you receive your leather. We want to know about both.
Thanks.
Attachments
Jordan
Member
Is anyone else getting their holsters? Or did Eric satisfy dr_cmg, his most active prosecuter, then fade away? Do I need to go back to my message leaving campaign?
Jordan
Member
Well, it's been about a week since I asked if anyone else got their holster.. I take it not. Not at least who post here.
Eric, I'm going to start tomorrow morning trying to get ahold of you. I know you can get my holster out if you want to... You wanted to get dr_cmg's out in hopes he would go away and that's just what you did.. you said you'd cut it out that night and he had it a few days later... whaddya' know. Nevermind that, as he stated, many of us have waited much longer than he.
I want my holster. I know you can do it just like you did it for him. Fricken' do it.
Eric, I'm going to start tomorrow morning trying to get ahold of you. I know you can get my holster out if you want to... You wanted to get dr_cmg's out in hopes he would go away and that's just what you did.. you said you'd cut it out that night and he had it a few days later... whaddya' know. Nevermind that, as he stated, many of us have waited much longer than he.
I want my holster. I know you can do it just like you did it for him. Fricken' do it.
Jordan
Member
Eric returned my call! Maybe he has reformed--?? I
hope to see him keep his word in getting my holster out first thing this week. I'll keep you all updated-
hope to see him keep his word in getting my holster out first thing this week. I'll keep you all updated-
Jordan
Member
Holster arrived today! It is really nice. I sincerely hope that one day Eric can get his #$%^ in one sock because he really does have a great product here.
I called twice recently to get things going and-- wonder of wonders-- he returned each call... pretty promptly too! Way to go Eric!
Good luck to those waiting. Don't give up.
I called twice recently to get things going and-- wonder of wonders-- he returned each call... pretty promptly too! Way to go Eric!
Good luck to those waiting. Don't give up.
Jordan
Member
I got a friendly follow-up call from Eric today to confirm that my holster arrived and make sure I liked it. That's good service.
It is a great holster and I have to say, Eric is a very friendly guy to talk to. It does seem he's interested in mending his bruised reputation.
Good luck to him and to those looking forward to their holsters.
It is a great holster and I have to say, Eric is a very friendly guy to talk to. It does seem he's interested in mending his bruised reputation.
Good luck to him and to those looking forward to their holsters.
JimChapman
Member
Talked to Eric a few times since this thread started and he hasn't come through yet. The last time I talked to him was about 19 days ago. I've been waiting now for 15 months 3 weeks and 2 days.
Maybe the only way for me to get my order is to keep this thread going aka Jorden?
Maybe the only way for me to get my order is to keep this thread going aka Jorden?
JimChapman
Member
It's been 3 days since I left a voice mail and no answer and I just left another. I'd love to hear if anyone else is still out there who hasn't gotten their order filled.
At this point I'm weighing options to take to make sure that this never happens to anyone else again. My thoughts include a complaint of interstate fraud to Minnesota and Utah's AG (I know Minnesota would investigate and if cause is found prosecute since they are required by Minnesota law). Bankruptcy would not protect him here since I have an email from him with a fraudulent claim of delivery time plus "filling orders for our boys in Iraq". Both of which were BS. Also since he filled orders after supposedly filing bankruptcy from people who placed them months and what looks like possibly a year after I placed mine, it is clear he had no intent of filling my order. I’m also thinking of putting up and maintaining a website dedicated to his fraudulent claims, calling Visa and informing them of his fraud (preventing him from being able to accept Visa if he starts again), etc.
I think I've been more then patient but my patience does have its limits. Especially after 1 year 3 months, 3 weeks and 5 days of “your order will be ready in 2 weeks”.
At this point I'm weighing options to take to make sure that this never happens to anyone else again. My thoughts include a complaint of interstate fraud to Minnesota and Utah's AG (I know Minnesota would investigate and if cause is found prosecute since they are required by Minnesota law). Bankruptcy would not protect him here since I have an email from him with a fraudulent claim of delivery time plus "filling orders for our boys in Iraq". Both of which were BS. Also since he filled orders after supposedly filing bankruptcy from people who placed them months and what looks like possibly a year after I placed mine, it is clear he had no intent of filling my order. I’m also thinking of putting up and maintaining a website dedicated to his fraudulent claims, calling Visa and informing them of his fraud (preventing him from being able to accept Visa if he starts again), etc.
I think I've been more then patient but my patience does have its limits. Especially after 1 year 3 months, 3 weeks and 5 days of “your order will be ready in 2 weeks”.
JimChapman
Member
Well after a third message Eric did call back and said my order will be shipped by Monday so I guess I'll see how it goes.
staudacher
Member
here I joined THR trying to find out info on this guy (I have been waiting for over a year for some stuff from HBE) and much to my dismay......I found about what I had expected. Today, for the first time in a long time, I managed to get Eric on the phone. Of course I was greeted with more excuses...he brought up the bankruptcy this time. The times before it was, his daughter helped him move and misplaced some of his orders...and then after that is was his house got flooded...well, you guys know the deal. At this point I don't want the items that I ordered (not that it looks like I will ever get them) but it also looks like I am out of luck on any chance of getting my money back as well. 
I wish my first post on the board was a happier one.
I wish my first post on the board was a happier one.
JimChapman
Member
Eric did call on Sat. morning and said he had sent my order. He then called later in the afternoon for some hints on breaking it in and such. I got my order in the mail today and he made things right by me. The holster and mag pouches look great. Eric does very nice work. I hope he works out his business issues as there will always be a market for his quality.
Those of you who are waiting, hang in there and call him. His product is worth it.
Jim
Those of you who are waiting, hang in there and call him. His product is worth it.
Jim
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Congratulations, Jim. That makes three. But I have to disagree with you on one thing. The product is not worth the wait. And especially if you have to go through we went through to get it. Six months if told that up front maybe, but 8 months or 10 months or 16 months after being told 4 months max and being told over and over that it would be done in another two weeks. No way! Nobody makes stuff worth that.
Having said that; Eric does make great holsters and if he gets to the point where he can provide them in a timely manner, 4 months or so, he will again be one of the top holster artists. He can stay that as long as he maintains good customer service and doesn't let his backlog get to long.
Having said that; Eric does make great holsters and if he gets to the point where he can provide them in a timely manner, 4 months or so, he will again be one of the top holster artists. He can stay that as long as he maintains good customer service and doesn't let his backlog get to long.
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randyman_ar
Member
Eric contacted me tonight around 7 to say my holster and mag pouch were ready and would ship Monday. After our conversation I do believe he is sincerely trying to make things right with his customers. If you have an order pending and haven't contacted Eric you need to do so.
I will post back with pics when they arrive.
I will post back with pics when they arrive.
CNate
Member
I absolutly can not wait until Eric is able to take new orders someday. Belive it or not I found THR doing a google search for holsters, it directed me to this very thread!
After reading it I said "Man, I'd never order from that dude." But over time keeping up with the thread and reading the posts from Eric himself I saw a huge change.
Again, here's to the hope that Eric will begin taking orders from new customers sometime soon. Until then, enjoy that leather, I'll be jealous!
After reading it I said "Man, I'd never order from that dude." But over time keeping up with the thread and reading the posts from Eric himself I saw a huge change.
Again, here's to the hope that Eric will begin taking orders from new customers sometime soon. Until then, enjoy that leather, I'll be jealous!
Bowwave
Member
Weighing in Late
Hello All,
I'm serving in Iraq and just recently joined this forum. I've rarely seen a man called to account so thoroughly (and publicly) for his business failings and felt a strong need to provide another data point, however tardy. Please just accept this as my experience and not as an attempt to exonerate HBE. In October of 2005 (in Iraq then, also) I ordered a holster/belt from Eric and received it in February 2006. I had hoped it would be available in January 2006 when I returned stateside but it was delayed. Eric was good about keeping me informed and I took the delay in stride. The product was excellent.
Anyway, Eric, when you've met (and I hope exceeded) your obligations and are ready to hang your shingle again, send me a PM and I'll place another order. I'm rooting for you.
Thanks/Bowwave
Hello All,
I'm serving in Iraq and just recently joined this forum. I've rarely seen a man called to account so thoroughly (and publicly) for his business failings and felt a strong need to provide another data point, however tardy. Please just accept this as my experience and not as an attempt to exonerate HBE. In October of 2005 (in Iraq then, also) I ordered a holster/belt from Eric and received it in February 2006. I had hoped it would be available in January 2006 when I returned stateside but it was delayed. Eric was good about keeping me informed and I took the delay in stride. The product was excellent.
Anyway, Eric, when you've met (and I hope exceeded) your obligations and are ready to hang your shingle again, send me a PM and I'll place another order. I'm rooting for you.
Thanks/Bowwave
NCLivingBrit
Member
I've not ordered anything from HBE (nor would I, ever, after reading his collection of excuses) but it seems to me he's taken orders from a great many people and then fulfilled a small fraction of them, namely those who shout the loudest and most effectively.
Interesting business model, to fulfill the (vastly reduced) expectations of the small, vocal minority while keeping -everyones- money.
And notice, the glowing response as to the product received, sure sucker bait for those who hold out hope that HBE will deliver eventually and the product is so much better than anything else they might buy.
From where I sit, this Eric is a crook, using a few fulfilled orders, a decent product, hope and a litany of sob stories to keep bilking suckers. If I had any money in this mess, I'd be pressing fraud charges through the SAG's office right now.
Interesting business model, to fulfill the (vastly reduced) expectations of the small, vocal minority while keeping -everyones- money.
And notice, the glowing response as to the product received, sure sucker bait for those who hold out hope that HBE will deliver eventually and the product is so much better than anything else they might buy.
From where I sit, this Eric is a crook, using a few fulfilled orders, a decent product, hope and a litany of sob stories to keep bilking suckers. If I had any money in this mess, I'd be pressing fraud charges through the SAG's office right now.
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