Have a Luger on the way.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Unless the Luger is a commercial model (which this may be), the markings on the Luger is what give it it's intrinsic value.

Yes, That's what this is, a 1920 commercial model where the Weimar government had the Great War markings removed. I would never find a Luger in this condition for the price I paid if it were a 42 (Nazi) marked gun or even a WW1 marked gun.
 
Dudemeister: good points.
Years ago at the Ft. Worth gun show I saw Lugers from about twelve countries, and forgot about the wide variety. For a true collector very rewarding.

My comment was basically to suggest that even a Non-collector can find a true Luger much more interesting to own than my German Sig or Walther P99 ( or the Sauer 38H).
 
Last edited:
Yes, That's what this is, a 1920 commercial model where the Weimar government had the Great War markings removed. I would never find a Luger in this condition for the price I paid if it were a 42 (Nazi) marked gun or even a WW1 marked gun.
Actually, that's not entirely correct.

Commercial Lugers were meant to be sold commercially, as such, they did not have any of the military markings to start with. DWM manufactured commercial Lugers from 1900 until 1918, right along side military and various contract Lugers. Almost all Commercial Lugers are in .30 cal (7.65mm x21). In 1908 The German Imperial Army rubber stamped the Luger and called it Pistole 08 (aka P.08), but they required it to be made in the new (at the time 9mm) Parabellum. So all German military issue Lugers were 9mm.

In 1918, after the Treaty of Versailles, Germany/Wiemar Republic made an effort to reclaim all the war time armament, and millions of guns (handguns and rifles) were destroyed between 1918 and 1921. Some guns, including a lot of Lugers collected during that time were stamped on top of the chamber with a 1920, right next existing manufacture date. These are the so called double date models, however, the 1920 is not really a date, rather it's a Property mark, showing the gun was reclaimed by the the Wiemar government. Since Germany's army was effectively dismantled these guns were sometimes modified for Police use, and other small government officials. Sometimes in 1921, DWM restarted manufacturing commercial Lugers, and continued to do so until 1930. During this period, they started to add a letter suffix to the serial number, and these guns became known as the "Alphabet Commercial Lugers".

In 1930, Mauser acquired all of DWM tooling and spare parts for the manufacturing of the pistol, and started making commercial and contract guns through out the 30's until 1942. Most of the commercial Lugers of this era have the Mauser banner on the toggle, unless they were made for a special contract. In 1933/34, Germany began rearming in secret, and Lugers were manufactured with the 'secret code" S/42 on the toggle until 1940, when they switched to byf. Most had the manufacture date stamped on the chamber, but some have date codes like the K (1934) and G (1935) K dates.

But enough history for now. There are many books one can pick up on the history of the Luger, with tons of information to help collectors.

My point is that if your Luger is in .30 caliber it was not official military issue, it was made for commercial use. If you can post some detailed photos of the front of the frame and bottom of the barrel, also both sides of the frame and barrel, top of the chamber and top of the toggle, I may be able to give you more information.

FWIW, I have 1937 S/42 Mauser Luger in 9mm, and I also have a 1917 DWM LP.08 Artillery Luger (my grail Luger). Guess which one is the shooter.

Presentation Case 002.jpg Luger LP.08 - Right.jpg
DSC_3604.JPG DSC_3607.JPG
 
If you can post some detailed photos of the front of the frame and bottom of the barrel, also both sides of the frame and barrel, top of the chamber and top of the toggle, I may be able to give you more information.

I can't get better photos than the ones I already posted. However, there is a Crown/N proof mark under the barrel as well as on the left side of the receiver behind the serial number. Also, the bluing is very faded on the right side of the receiver where proofs might have been removed.
 
I thought the images you posted were NOT of your gun. Anyway, the crown over N is the common proof mark of commercial guns. Here are some questions:

Is there a year stamped on top of the receiver, if not is there anything there at all? What is the serial number of the gun? It should be on the front of the frame, just under the barrel. Is there a letter suffix under the number (in the photo below), there is italic "a" under the serial number. On the right side of the frame, are there any acceptance proofs like the ones in this photo?
DSC_3612-sm.jpg DSC_3613-sm.jpg DSC_3616-sm.jpg
 
Last edited:
s there a year stamped on top of the receiver, if not is there anything there at all? What is the serial number of the gun? Is there a letter suffix under the number (in the photo below), there is italic "a" under the serial number. On the right side of the frame, are there any acceptance proofs like the ones in this pthe frame, are there any acceptance proofs like the ones in this photo?

Yes, that is my gun in the posted photos. I received them before I got the gun.

Serial # - 2046 There is a stylized something under the number. It looks like a lower case "f" slanted to the right. It could be a "t" with a loop at the top.
No markings on the right side of the frame just much lighter bluing.
No year stamped on top of the receiver.
 
Ok, from all indications you have what is commonly known as an Alphabet Luger. As previously mentioned, In 1921, DWM started to serialize the commercial guns in the military style (4 digits + suffix). The numbering started with the suffix " i " and ended in 1930 with the suffix " t ". So there is no " f ". So if yours has a " t " it was made sometime in 1930.

Here is a photo showing the script that was used for the suffix for both the guns themselves and the magazines. Which one is the closest?

suffix script.jpg
 
The mark on mine is the 2nd one from the top left adjacent to the "e" with a + below it. It still looks like an "f" to me. Mine does not have the + sign.

Thanks for going to all this trouble.
 
Since you said that is an "F", then it can't be an alphabet commercial, so I looked again at the image you posted. And I see something there. Can you either take a closeup photo of the top of the receiver or take a really close look and tell me if there is a large x on top like in the photo below?

The photo you posted appears to show a large "X" through what might have been a date once. Russian capture.jpg
 
Last edited:
It looks like random scratches to me when using magnification. When using a bright light from an angle there is a dim trace of what looks like 3-4 numbers that are almost completely obliterated. They are off-center to the left and may be 192? I'm not sure of the 1 but the 9 and 2 barely show up. The perceived X is just random scratches.

In the above photo I can see what looks like a small spaced-out 1, 9 and 2 right in front of the most noticeable angled scratch.
 
Dudemeister

Love the awesome Oak Leaves and Eagle grips! Can't get more Germanic than that unless we're talking about an opera by Wagner!
 
Dudemeister

Love the awesome Oak Leaves and Eagle grips! Can't get more Germanic than that unless we're talking about an opera by Wagner!
Thanks. I like them because they're appropriate to this gun. Since the LP-08 is a 1917 Imperial Luger, I thought the the oak leaves and Imperial Eagle belong on it.

Here is the Imperial Germany coat of Arms during WWI.
Imperial eagle coat of arms.png
 
It looks like random scratches to me when using magnification. When using a bright light from an angle there is a dim trace of what looks like 3-4 numbers that are almost completely obliterated. They are off-center to the left and may be 192? I'm not sure of the 1 but the 9 and 2 barely show up. The perceived X is just random scratches.

In the above photo I can see what looks like a small spaced-out 1, 9 and 2 right in front of the most noticeable angled scratch.

Unfortunately, without more detailed photos, and close ups, I really can't tell you what it is. If this had been a German military issue Luger, it would be in 9mm, it might still be a contract Luger, meaning it was made for specific customer or market. Most export Lugers had the word Germany stamped somewhere on it. Some special contract pistols had the importer's name on it. For example Stoeger was importing commercial Lugers in the 20's, and so were Abercrombie and Fitch, believe it or not.

But if you really want to find out more about your gun, we need more photos
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top