Having a "Car Gun" when your spouse doesn't have a CCL...

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Sorry that I had to create an alias. I realised that my user name identified me way too easily. Posts of mine could easily be found when typing the first part of my well known email address into google! I'm fairly new, but not brand new.

Anyway, I've heard a bunch of you talk about keep a gun in the car. I'm new to shooting, and can't afford a gun for both my wife and I yet. I've decided to buy and leave CZ-52 in the car, so that when I leave by myself, I can leave the Ruger SP101 with her. No need to debate the worthiness of the CZ-52 for self defense, as I'll replace it when I can afford to.

My wife doesn't have a CCL. She needs to be able to jump in the car and go for a drive legally without having to think to remove the handgun. We will spend the money to get her CCL at some point, but we haven't needed to yet. So assuming your state doesn't allow a loaded gun in your car without a CCL, I'm assuming the following:

1.) Your spouse has a CCL
2.) You are the only one that drives your vehicle
3.) The handgun is secured in such a fashion that it's legal for a non CCL holder to drive your car.

Are there other scenarios I am missing?
 
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I'm not sure what my state's laws are, but we don't usually leave guns in our car. Main reason is we don't have that many to have an extra one for just in the car. Also we don't trust our neighbors and their friends. I do carry in the car and sometimes have one in the glovebox when my hubby and I are in there. He doesn't yet have his carry permit, but we need to work on that. I'm not sure if I should have it on me and not in the glovebox cause he doesn't have his permit yet.

Not sure if this will help, hope others provide better responses.

Gus
 
I was always told that in Texas you need to have the gun unloaded with gun and ammo stored separately (preferably locked) and gun cannot be within easy reach of the people. Behind the seat or on the back seat can be considered "within easy reach". Also, I have been told in the past that you are not supposed to just drive around with guns in the car. You have to go from point A to point B without stopping.

Now, Texas non-CHL laws concerning driving are not real plain or simple so there may be many interpretations. The LEO and Prosecutor may interpret it differently than you.
 
Thanks - I'm familiar with packing.org. I'm posing the question to people who live in states that don't allow non-permit holders to have concealed handguns in the car.

Funny thing is, I kept read rickster's post.. "In MY OPINION, anyone over 21..."

Needless to say I was confused until I figured out it was supposed to read "In Missouri" LOL
 
I feel that you need to learn your state law. You would probably be best off to read it and follow it. Since it doesn't seem that there are any problems with having your wife get a license, why not just do it? It would probably be a lot cheaper than paying a lawyer for competent legal advice.

Although there are some advantages to leaving a gun in the car, there are a lot of disadvantages. At best, you will always have to lock the car. In your case, it sounds like you or your wife will be unarmed except when when you are in the car, which is ordinarily when you least need the gun, since you will have a powerful car for escape and evasion, which is almost always a LOT better than using a gun.

Locked car or not, there is some chance thatyour gun will get stolen from the car.

Get a license. Carry or don't. That's my advice. Your own circumstances may weigh more heavily towards car carry, but if that's what you do, your wife is almost surely still better off with the license.
 
Model, thanks for info and advice. I am familiar with my state law. It does not permit a non-permit holder to have a concealed weapon in their vehicle. The original post originated out of my curiosity regarding the folks that do leave weapons hidden in their car.
 
If you want it to be legal the best you can probably do is put it in the trunk until she gets a permit.
 
My wife specifically got her license for the sole reason you mentioned... so that if I stepped out of the car, she's still legal. It also got her going on maybe wanting to shoot now and then.
 
That's great. Telling her she has to get a permit, and it leading to more enthusiasm on her part. :)
 
If she gets a CCL, the point becomes moot and you're automatically on solid legal ground. My wife got her CCL when I did, mostly to avoid the problem you're asking about - she doesn't carry concealed (yet), but a CCL doesn't require her to do so anyway.
 
What is this packing-org you speak of, and how would one navigate there?

</kidding>
 
Your question is really pointless, to be honest. You need to talk to an attorney, in your state, who is familiar with the relevant laws AND how they are commonly interperated. Anything else is just internet guesswork.

Personally, the biggest reason my wife got a CPL was just so we wouldn't have to worry about the gun in the car issue. The expense of getting a CCW for your wife is much less then the possible legal expenses if she get's caught with a gun in the car without having the appropriate permit.

Btw, in Michigan, there is NO WAY for the non-CPL holder to legally drive the car that contains the concealed pistol. It gets even worse if the pistol is not "Safety inspected" (registered) to that person. A non-CPL holder can only transport unloaded pistols in the trunk. Nothing in the car itself, no matter how it is secured.

Btw, leaving the gun in the car unattended is a bad idea anyway. If you have the CPL, just carry the darn gun already. Leaving it the car is an invitation to get it stolen. I only leave mine in the car when I have to make a short trip to a non-carry zone. If I make a long trip to a non-carry zone, like when I spend a day doing research at the university library, I leave the gun at home.
 
MechAg94,

Texas does not make a distinction between a loaded and an unloaded gun.

Unless the Penal code has changed in the last couple of months.
 
For the state of Texas, I think MechAg and chas_martel are correct. Even if you are going to the shooting range, its there and back to the house in the trunk of your car where you cannot have easy access. I think there are some states which the auto is considered the same as your home and you can carry inside the car (please someone correct me if I am in error - I don't want to give out erronous information).
 
I remember this question appearing in an FAQ about NC CCW laws somewhere on one of the State's web servers. It was specifically cited as something that could get the person in trouble.

In fact, IIRC, it was stated that a person could be arrested for an illegal concealed weapon even if the CCW licencee/ car owner was driving the car when the passenger had convenient access to the concealed weapon. ie. If you had a loaded gun concealed in a console or glove box and had a passenger who was not licenced for a CCW. (I'd imagine a casual friend could easily beat that in court, but a spouse might have a harder time arguing they didn't know about the weapon and that might be the intent of the example).
 
So assuming your state doesn't allow a loaded gun in your car without a CCL, I'm assuming the following:

1.) Your spouse has a CCL
2.) You are the only one that drives your vehicle
3.) The handgun is secured in such a fashion that it's legal for a non CCL holder to drive your car.

Are there other scenarios I am missing?
Click to expand...
Since you have not identified your state, it's impossible for anyone to answer this question adequately. However, just going on the face of what you have offered, it strikes me that your assumption number 3 is invalid, and the scenario you seem to be missing is number 3A -- it is not legal for a non-CCL holder to have a handgun anywhere in the vehicle, regardless of how it is stowed.

Remember that the Firearms Owners Protective Act (FOPA) applies only to inTERstate travel, not to inTRAstate travel. That's the law that allows you to drive THROUGH states where you are not legal, provided that your possession of the gun(s) is legal at your state of departure and is legal at your state of arrival. The FOPA does not apply to or cover travel within a single state, thus it is essential that you focus on what the law says in your state.

There are states in which it is simply illegal to have a gun -- handgun or long gun, loaded or unloaded, in the front seat or locked in the trunk -- without a permit. The number of such states increases when the gun is a handgun.

BTW -- let's suppose that your state allows such carry if the gun is unloaded and stored in a locked container not accessible to the driver. What possible use is it to you if that's the way you carry it?
 
Thanks Hawkmoon. I learned something. Honestly, I wasn't really seeking advice, just striking up conversation. I'm not even really sure why it sounded like I was asking for advice.

When I hear guys talk about leaving a gun in their car, I just wondered which category they fall under. I did suspect that either a.) their spouse was a permit holder or b.) the spouse never drove their car.
 
Now, Texas non-CHL laws concerning driving are not real plain or simple
Click to expand...
Aside from TX CHL laws, TX treats handguns and long guns in vehicles differently. There's the famous "traveling" handgun law, for example . . . which has varying interpretations. For another example, it's not unusual - once you get out of urban areas full of knee-jerk liberals - to see a rifle rack (with rifles!) in the back window of a pickup truck. No problem.

I once met an older gentleman who kept a cheap, (non-functional) shotgun locked in his trunk. He said it was his car theft protection - if his car were to be stolen, he figured the cops wouldn't really look for it . . . UNLESS he mentioned when filing the report that there was a gun in the trunk. THEN it would become a priority. (This was his experience talking.)
 
Quote: "Now, Texas non-CHL laws concerning driving are not real plain or simple so there may be many interpretations. The LEO and Prosecutor may interpret it differently than you."

Quite true. At least for now, without a CHL. There is a bill proposed in the current TX legislature which would better define "traveling" with a handgun in vehicle. I hope I'm wrong, but don't believe it will pass - this year anyway. If it does, it will likely go into effect Sept. 1. Right now though, just lots of discussion and speculation ...
 
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