Hazing goes overboard for firefighters

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TheeBadOne

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Two Firefighters Lose Jobs Over Hazing

Two Florida firefighters have been fired and four others were either suspended or demoted for their alleged roles in a hazing incident involving a female colleague.

Justin Parrinello and Chris Meyer were both fired this week, according to officials in Coral Springs, Florida.

Parrinello had been with the department since November 1999; Meyer had been a fire inspector since August 2000.

City officials said Parrinello left his zone without notifying dispatch to participate in the hazing, during which he wore a hood.

Meyer wore a ski mask when he bound Krystyna Krakowski's ankles with plastic handcuffs during the incident, according to city documents.

Two department lieutenants, Michael Matz and John Agostinelli, both were demoted to the rank of firefighter/paramedic and were suspended for 144 hours. Both men will lose about $5,000 in salary annually because of the loss of rank.

Firefighters Dan Doherty and Damon France were both issued 96-hour suspensions.

"There is no excuse for this egregious behavior," city manager Michael Levinson said. "And there's no substitute for common sense, respect and professional judgment."

The 28-year-old Krakowski, a probationary firefighter, was sleeping in the bunkroom of fire station No. 71 on Feb. 22 when she was awoken by five male co-workers, four of whom wore hooded masks, police said.

A blanket was thrown over Krakowski's head, her ankles were bound and attempts were made to bind her wrists, police said. The men allegedly fled when Krakowski began struggling.

No criminal charges will be filed against any of the men involved.

"She feels bad these people lost their jobs, but it wasn't her decision," said Krakowski's attorney, Joe Carter. "She is sorry the whole thing happened."

The six male firefighters had been on paid suspension since April 22. Krakowski, who declined interview requests, was on administrative leave before returning to work May 7.

"There are really no winners in this whole thing," said Lt. Chris Bator, president of Coral Springs Local 3080. "Krystyna is a member of our union and she is affected and the other guys were great employees for many years and they have saved a lot of lives. It's unfortunate for everybody. The fire department and city of Coral Springs both lose."
 
I have been hazed, or indoctrinated or whatever you want to call it. It was called being made one of the team and being accepted on an equal level by your peers and co-workers.

With the exception of colleges, it seems that hazing only happens with people of dangerous professions, police, firefighters and military units and the like. I guess if you share the possibility of dying with or putting your life on the line for somebody a unique bond and trust developes and is required.

Any accountants been hazed? "Hey Eddie!, I took the batteries out of Joes calculator!"

While these guys are at fault, in all honesty I can't help but feel contempt for her to a certain degree. She will always be remembered as the "chick that got those guys fired" and her job from here on out isn't going to be easy.
 
I think those guys got off easy, what if she thought she was about to be raped and ended up putting a cap into one of them? It certainly wouldn't help convince anyone that self defense with a gun is ok. I can see the twisted liberal headline now: "Armed woman goes insane, shoots six 'city heros' at fire station."

:cuss:

I don't know about you but if my life is in the hands of colleagues I would rather have mutual respect. You don't have to like the other guy, as long as you respect and trust them not to stab you in the back. This fratboy stunt would only create hidden animosity. Joking around, good natured teasing, and a general ballbusting from colleagues is 1 thing. But violating someone like that is something else.

Hell, I'd let them 6 burn in a building for that kind of stunt. "Oops, I didn't know turning this would turn off the water..." :fire:
 
Ian, consider the details:
The 28-year-old Krakowski, a probationary firefighter, was sleeping in the bunkroom of fire station No. 71 on Feb. 22 when she was awoken by five male co-workers, four of whom wore hooded masks, police said.

A blanket was thrown over Krakowski's head, her ankles were bound and attempts were made to bind her wrists, police said.
This is NOT HAZING!!! :fire: Anyone who tries to get their hands on me while they're masked, and tries to block my vision and movement with a blanket, will probably not survive the experience - and if it was hazing, they'll have hazed themselves straight into an early grave. NOT funny! Put yourself in her shoes... with the number of rapists, gang-bangers, etc. out there, how would you like to go through such an experience? I'm willing to bet she didn't recognize any of them immediately, and if they kept quiet, she wouldn't have been able to recognize their voices. They asked for all they got, and then some!

John:
Imagine this happening to some of the women on this forum. Can you say "carnage in the firehouse?"

ROTFLMAO!!! Lessee, now...

FIREHOUSE FRACAS LEAVES FIRE DEPARTMENT IN HIRING MODE

There were terrible scenes of carnage today in the bunkroom of fire station No. 71 on Feb. 22, when firefighters Runt and Tamara were woken by the intrusion of five masked and unidentified assailants. Both responded with accurate, high-volume fire from HK and Springfield Armory side-arms. When the smoke had cleared, it was unfortunately discovered that all five were fire department employees engaged in some sort of prank (the nature of which is unknown, as they're in no condition to answer questions - in this life, anyway).

Both ladies insisted on being photographed sitting atop the pile of bodies, blowing smoke from their handguns and giving one another mutual "high-fives". Their request to mount the heads of their trophies is being contested by the Firefighters Union. A spokesman for the union stated that the request constituted behavior contrary to the Union Code of Conduct. However, the ladies insist that this Code is discriminatory against their best interests, and are threatening legal action if it is enforced in this situation.

When asked about his partner Runt's actions, Mr. Oleg Volk, a photographer and Internet forum organizer, responded "Don't pick on me! I didn't have anything to do with this! Besides, I have to replace her ammunition!"
 
While these guys are at fault, in all honesty I can't help but feel contempt for her to a certain degree.

Jeezus, you can't be serious. A woman sleeping to be woken up by five guys trying to tie her up?! You feel contempt for HER?!
 
I can easily see the 5 firefighters finding themselves nailed to the wall by the father and brothers of the female firefighter.

That wasn't hazing, that was real close to attempted rape.
 
Ian Sean

In my time I have been a firefighter (forest), and military (retired as an E7).

In all of the time I spent in both of these professions if five masked men had attempted to accost me in my rack there would have been blood and body parts on the deck.

There were the traditional “wetting down “ ceremonies when I left units and as a sailing skipper my crew has thrown me in when we won but this is far different from the incident in question as they were both planned and expected.

This type of assault if removed from the sterile news account and presented to most of the people on this forum as (an assault on a sleeping individual by five masked assailants) would present a prima fascia case for the use of lethal force.
 
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Yep, reminds me of the time I started working as an engineer. Two nerds entered my office and forced me at the end of a sliderule to recite the first ten numbers of pi, and then......oh, never mind.
 
I thought they got fired and disciplined for hazing, not attempted rape or assault. When they change the charges against those guys let me know and I WILL change my opinion of the affair. For now what I wrote stands.

Put my holding her in "contempt" statement into perspective. I hate a RAT. Somebody bought the hazing story the guys told including her. Which means this type of hazing, while strange, had gone on before and was known about because they were not charged with assault or something harsher. Thats my point, Agreed?

That said, it stands without question that she will be treated as a pariah because she ratted on her crew and is going to have a hard time at work from now on because of it.
 
Contmpt? Really?

THEY assaulted her.

THEY wore masks.

THEY conspired for some time together to commit what looks a whole lot to me like at least Attempted Kidnapping.

THEY decided to disregard the duty they were charged with.

THEY decided that putting a person (doesn't matter much that it was a women-- how many of us could successfully fight off 5 firefighters, starting in our sleep, which slumber, BTW, we began in a place that we were given to believe was safe?!?) was an appropriate method of mentoring their new firefighter.

Now, she will have to do her job in that same environment. Imagine trying to sleep there, now. Lie down in the same bunk where you were attacked in your sleep, and tell me that you'll get good rest. I think you'll likely not manage to do so. THEY were punished? Well so was SHE. Difference is, they should have known what they were in for, going into this. She certainly didn't.

Calling her a "rat" is to condone what they did. What they did was victimize a person in the name of "initiation", and then expect her to laugh it off. As the others have laughingly made alusion to, think how badly this could have turned out, with her still the victim.
 
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Hazing?? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight -

When I was in college I decided perhaps joining a fraternaty might be a good thing to do. I expected the funny hat, singing the frat song on demand, some mindless goofiness, some arduous physical 'training', some excessive drinking.

I didn't expect the pyhsical abuse, personal degradation and humiliation that followed. ONe night, about halfway through the pledge period, we were taken out in the country, forced to drink some truly noxious concoctions, striped half naked, tied, and beaten (not too badly, but roundly slapped around-).

About halfway through this 'session', I had a minor epiphany and decided I really didn't need 'friends' like this, got loose, and proceeded to beat the living shinola out of 3/6 'pledgemasters' present. I was in a rage. I ended up pretty messy, but I TRASHED (i.e emergency room time) those motherjumpers. I guess I'm lucky that no charges resulted (so are they-), but never again. 30+ years later, I'd still like to beat on a couple of those clowns - I wouldn't pee on 'em if they were on fire.:fire:

Hazing, my @$$. I understand the need to meet serous physical challenges, demonstrate a high degree of dedication and determinatin and commitment 'to make the team', but abuse, degradation and humilation is not part of the equation. It's stupid. It fosters resentment, grudges, pay-backs, and a lot of other negativity that is anathemic to real team cohesion and loyalty, let along true commaraderie. JMNSHO. :rolleyes:
 
Hazing is pure aggression, and no sugar coating will change the fact that it IS aggression.

This was aggression, different from Rape only by degree.

Had I been in charge,all 5 of those geniuses would have been up on charges for removal, and street charges would have followed. This is NO way to built Esprit D'Corps.

And if the victim had responded with Deadly Force, she was certainly entitled to do so.
 
"Got those guys fired"!?

They're lucky they aren't dead. I wouldn't shed a tear, and I'd pin a medal on her chest...but, I guess that's we all have our own opinions, John-john

John
 
Thirty some years ago, hazing was more socially acceptable than it is today. Well, I transferred from one group to another within the same youth organization. I was eighteen. About eight guys in the new group were going to use "hazing" as a cover to stomp a mudhole in my butt.

Unfortunately for them, we were operating at different strategic levels. They were depending on superior numbers. I was depending on superior weapons and superior intelligence...I had a sawn off hickory shovel handle-and a spy:D

So they came traipsing down the trail leading to my tent...right by my bush. When four went by me...I commenced my preemptive strike by striking number four in the kidneys and number five in the solar plexus. Number three and number six wanted to know what the commotion was...they found out. Four down and four to go. They couldn't see and didn't know what was up.
At least two of them wound up fighting each other until I got to them.

When I finished they were a cowering, bloody, mewling mess.

I wasn't the pariah thereafter, either, when I stamped my foot they flinched.

They flinch today.

Screw their "team."

And Ian, there are a good many folks like me who carry a gun to bed with them...all the time...every where. Believe me, if you put on a mask and come mess with me while I'm in that bed then we will never be on the same team. You can't be on a team when you are either dead or recovering from massive trauma.

Oh, and I wouldn't "rat" on them. I'd just call EMS and the police and tell them what happened: I was attacked by men in masks who attempted to restrain me with plastic ties. I shot them until they ceased their attack. Hope that makes you feel less contempt towards me. :cool:
 
Ian Sean is right about one thing. The fact that they won't be charged with at least assault is unforgiveable. However, it sounds to me like that decision was based on the city's interest in making this event as short-lived a news story as possible, not on a lack of evidence.

It shouldn't take actual, formal legal charges for anyone to conclude that attacking someone in the middle of the night in her own bed, binding her ankles and wrists, and covering her head with a blanket or anything else is assault. Calling it "hazing" changes exactly nothing. If they'd raped her, would that be hazing?


Let me just bring up one more thing. No matter the level of aggression (or lack thereof) there's one more element that is required to call anything "hazing." If it's real hazing, truly done for the purpose of binding a team together, then everyone must go through the same thing. I've been hazed a few times myself, and contrary to some earlier statements, all my hazing was part of my experience playing sports. I worked for awhile in one of the most dangerous professions there is--farming--and was not hazed beyond some good-natured ridicule and practical jokes. Nobody around here beats young farm hands in the middle of the night or ties up coal miners while wearing ski masks, even though those professions are statistically more dangerous than firefighting in this part of the country.
To get back to my real point, the value of hazing, if there is any, is the understanding that your tormentors went through the same thing and so will the next generation. Now, I don't for certain, but did it sound to anyone else as if this might have been something "special" that was only done to the new "chick?" It's so close to most women's nightmare rape scenarios--and so different from the usual things men come up with when they decide to mess with each other.


Personally, I was never beaten. Couple of guys said they'd shut me in a locker once, but I told them they couldn't move me and I wouldn't fit anyway. I went through all the mindless tasks, grunt work, make-work, stupid songs, recitations of meaningless trivia, etc. with good humor, but nobody was going to beat me without getting something back.
 
I went to a private school one time when I was 11 or so and the teachers would pick some students that were behavior problems and tie them to a post and beat them with the typical corporal punishment paddles.

Everyone thought it was hilarious but I saw the rage and fear in the kids
eyes and figured they weren't helping him much.

The really funny thing about this school was this was a hippy school run by true 60's leftists (do what you want, go to class when you want, free spirit the older students could smoke dope whatever.

Needless to say it was not my type of environment and I was put back in public school in short order where the only abuse you got was verbal
and emotional.
 
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