HD Shotgun for 16 year old girl, advice?

Discussion in 'Shotguns' started by Curiousity, Apr 16, 2008.

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  1. Curiousity

    Curiousity Member

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    Hello, i am looking for a shotgun so she can use as HD when she is alone at home. She is 5'6 110 Pounds so i don't think a 28" 12gauge would suit her.

    -So basically it has to be low-recoil (can you use 20ga effectively in HD, which one for her size .410, 12,20) so she can do follow up shots and feel comfortable with it. Maybe an 18" idk.... Lots of rounds preferably 7 or more.

    specific models would be helpful. Thank you

    Price has to be around 300 or lower would be better thanks...
     
  2. Wopasaurus

    Wopasaurus Member

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    My girlfriend is 5'2 and a buck 10... so needless to say, she's a smaller girl.

    We have a Mossberg 500A 18" barrel in the closet. We have 5 rounds of Low Recoil Hornady 00 buck in it. She can handle that just fine. It kicks like birdshot, but will do the job. I'd also recommend a pistol grip along with the shoulder stock.

    I don't have much experience with 20ga, or 410, but our set up does the trick for us.


    Edit: It came with Ghost Ring sights, and a Speedfeed stock. And I paid a little over $300 for it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2008
  3. bogie

    bogie Member

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    WHY?

    Bad neighborhood?

    Bad classmates?

    Do the -easy- threats first. Lethal force is last in line.
     
  4. TAB

    TAB Member

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    there is nothing wrong with a 20 ga... the only real diffrence between a 20 and 12 is the number of pellets.

    Just make sure the gun fits her.
     
  5. Curiousity

    Curiousity Member

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    She was kidnapped from school, she then escaped. Cops are looking for the guy, he knows where she lives. He has been stalking her for 3 months. she is my friend. I have spoken to her mother and she will be buying her a shotgun so when she is alone. Better to have then not to have. We went over it if he happens to try to come in, she is to lock herself in her moms room, call 911 and have shotgun by her side just in case.

    I was thinking maybe a youth model. Would that suit her better. Well let me know any recommendations you may have.

    So bird shot has less recoil and a girl can handle it just fine in 12 gauge?
     
  6. TAB

    TAB Member

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    Its debatable rather bird shot works or not... I personally think if you fill some ones face with shot, it does not mater what size it is, they are going to stop.

    In her case some of the lower recoil buck shot would be better.

    A youth model would most likly fit her best.

    I have to ask why a shot gun?

    from the sound of it a revoler might be better in this case. Its not like there is a diffrence in price.
     
  7. HungSquirrel

    HungSquirrel Member

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    I think a 12 gauge with the aforementioned low-recoil loads would do nicely, if you can find the shotgun and the ammo locally (or quickly).

    It's terrible someone so young should have to face that kind of reality. I think equally important steps to take would be to make sure her home alone time is minimal, and to be sure she has a cell phone on her person at all times.
     
  8. mnrivrat

    mnrivrat Member

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    20ga. Youth model either Mossberg 500 or Remington 870. Practice with light loads and use #3 buckshot for SD . It will fit her .
     
  9. Curiousity

    Curiousity Member

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    Nice! thanks i am gonna look into this, but i am still wondering between 20ga and 12ga......
     
  10. theken206

    theken206 Member

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    im not personally big on low recoil loads my self.

    I say a 20 GA youth model with full powered buckshot loads and slugs.
     
  11. Frangibility

    Frangibility Member

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    A couple of suggestions

    This isn't answering your question, and I apologize in advance if that's annoying to you, but since a couple of other people have added additional 2 cents, I hope it's all right if I add mine.

    First, I hope someone qualified is going to give this girl some TRAINING. Safety rules, safe gun handling skills, over and over and over. How horrible would it be if she gets injured not by the stalker but from her own unfamiliarity with firearms?? Once she can recite the basic rules and knows them physically (muzzle control, finger off trigger, etc.), more training on how to use the weapon defensively.

    I also wonder if a revolver -- say, a .357/.38sp -- wouldn't be more newbie-friendly. Also harder to take away from her in a struggle than a long gun. I'd go with the .357/.38 instead of straight .38, so that, if she gets more comfortable with it, she can use .357, now or in the future. She can also train more at the range with a revolver than with a shotgun because of less physical fatigue (from racking [assuming it's a pump] and from recoil).

    Lastly, I agree with the cell phone with her at all times suggestion. I would suggest also that, in this "home alone" situation (which should be minimized, obviously) she have a land line as her first attempt to get 911 on the phone. It can be a cordless phone so she can be mobile (look out windows, lock doors, stay away from windows, etc.). The good thing about that is that 911 can sometimes trace the call and find her even if she is interrupted and drops the phone. My fiancee once made an emergency call, the line got cut before she gave the address, but somehow the law showed up, guns drawn, expecting a possible hostage situation. Everything was fine by then, but it was interesting. Also, on this topic, have her PRACTICE what she's going to say when she dials 911. One of the first things she says should be the address where she is, in case she's cut short by BG coming into house, etc.
    When I was 14 I had to dial 911 because of domestic violence in my house, and I, rattled as hell, dialled 411 (information), because that's all I had ever dialled before. She should practice everything she should do, physically, not just mentally/verbally. She will feel more secure from knowing what she's going to do under what circumstances.

    Lastly, I hope she can get some good counseling after this. She may need a lot of it (I mean years) and there's no shame in that at all. This perp has no right to turn her into a terrified, damaged human being, and a good therapist can help her turn this into a growth experience (pardon the touchy-feely phrase, but it's the best expression I can come up with) and not a wound that won't heal.

    Again, please pardon the unsolicited advice. I really hope everything turns out as well as it can at this point. I hope her mom is okay, too. Sounds like a vulnerable situation.
     
  12. Curiousity

    Curiousity Member

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    Yeah she is happy though, nothing bad happened to her at all. Now she is changing schools- Online school. Always gonna be with someone. There are those times when parents work where she will a need a way to protect herself and this is where the shotgun comes into play. All of this is last resort but she is planning for the worst.

    Hey i appreciate your advice a lot. Thank you for writing that. Yes i am going to train her on how to use it we have gone over what she would do. It has always been verbally so thanks for the actually doing it and practicing advice its better then how we have been doing it just having her recite it.

    We are gonna spend a whole day at the range with the shotgun. I have decided on the 20gauge youth model, just need to find one now.

    But thank you for all the advice everyone. If more people can chime in that would be great.
     
  13. cluttonfred

    cluttonfred Member

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    Honestly, IMHO, even a 20 gauge shotgun is probably not the way to go if she has no prior shooting experience. A .22 will be effective as a deterrent and a lot easier for any beginner to handle, and a couple of Yellow Jackets will definitely change a punk's mind about coming after her. The ubiquitous 10/22, perhaps with a folding stock for handier use indoors, would a be a great bet. Even my Marlin Papoose, again loaded with Yelow Jackets, is a comfort when things go bump in the night. A .22 caliber auto pistol or revolver would also be a good choice.

    If you are absolutely decided on a shotgun, I would recommend a .410. I am surprised that no one has mentioned the Mossberg 500 home defense model:

    500® HS410™ HOME SECURITY
    6 SHOT 50359 .410 3" BEAD SIGHT, SPREADER CHOKE 9 18 1/2" BEAD SPREADER 37 1/4" 13 7/8" 1 1/2" 2 1/8" BLUE SYNTHETIC (BLACK) 5 1/2 LBS $385.00

    or the pistol-grip Cruiser in .410

    6 SHOT CRUISER 50455 .410 3" PISTOL GRIP ONLY 6 18 1/2" BEAD CYLINDER BORE 29 1/2" - - - BLUE SYNTHETIC (BLACK) 5 1/2 LBS $375.00

    Before anyone starts putting down the .410 as a defensive load, take a look at the Brassfetcher test results on .410 buck.

    Again, though, in terms of confidence, I would really recommend a .22 or, perhaps, a light-kicking handgun like a steel-frame .38 special revolver or .380 auto pistol.

    Of course, my advice is worth the price, and YMMV. ;-)
     
  14. Leitmotif

    Leitmotif Member

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    A light handgun might be better for the future. What age can you get a CCW in your area? May be worth looking into the idea of getting used to a handgun for self-defense.

    Snub revolvers aren't going to make any friends.
    a) They're no fun to shoot. There are masochists who dispute this, but a 16 year old probably won't.
    b) They have little to no intimidation value. You're already going to have a problem with the guy taking the threat of a 16 year old seriously. Admittedly, a handgun is inferior to a long gun in this area, and the shotgun is king of intimidation.
    c) You're dealing with someone who is at an age where aesthetics are important. May be more or less important depending on the individual, but coming from a relative youngster, there's little that's attractive about a snubbie.

    Maybe try finding a 'businesslike' .22 like a Walther P22 or Sig mozzie, depending on budget. Even a CZ or good ol' 1911 with a conversion kit. Best in my opinion though would be a Beretta model 84 .380 - it's high-quality, accurate and a pleasure to shoot, though the couple I've used have had pretty stiff slides.
     
  15. plexreticle

    plexreticle Member

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    A German Shepherd or a Rottweiler would be better than any gun at keeping her stalker at bay.

    For back up a 20 gauge should be fine.
     
  16. Leitmotif

    Leitmotif Member

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    It'll take less time to train a young girl in self-defense than to train a dog for defense and acclimatise it to new owners.

    Some people are not comfortable with the idea of animals inside the house, and animals on their own can be neutralised.

    Relying on someone or something else will not give her the emotional/mental background to overcome the very real psychological effects of a threat like this.

    Edit: I see Oleg agrees.
     
  17. plexreticle

    plexreticle Member

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    I would feel much safer with a dog and a gun over just a dog or just a gun.

    I've seen both in action and it's a potent combo. If she don't like dogs then so be it, but to poo-poo a viable and effective security measure isn't really sound advice imo.
     
  18. cluttonfred

    cluttonfred Member

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    Here's a thought...

    You can't get them new anymore, but a H&R/NEF revolver in .22LR (6- or 9-shots) is cheap, safe, easy to shoot, not hard to find and will do the job. I think they look cool, but then I have strange tastes.

    Charter Arms and Taurus/Rossi also make decent, no-frills .22 revolvers, though I wouldn't go any cheaper than that.

    There are lots of decent .22 auto pistols out there, and a Makarov or CZ-82 is cheap and easy to shoot, as are the Bersa .380s. For the scenario you describe, though, I think a revolver is best:

    1) Check if it's loaded
    2) Point
    3) Pull trigger

    Can't get much simpler than that.
     
  19. USMC 1975

    USMC 1975 Member

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    A 20 gauge or 12 gauge " pump " shotgun will work fine. ( I would stay away from the single shot shotguns ). Buy the OO buck shot ammo and your good to go.

    If the prices are close to being the same, then I suggest a 12 ga. Otherwise, a 20 gauge is going to hurt about the same as a 12 gauge if both are loaded with buck shot.

    Be sure someone goes over the operation of the gun with her. She needs to learn how to use it properly to prevent future accidents.

    Hope this helps.

    Chris
     
  20. Fred Fuller

    Fred Fuller Moderator Emeritus

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    I love a shotgun for HD as much as anyone you're apt to find, but it might not be the best choice for all shooters in all situations. The SHOOTER matters more than the hardware. it takes good training, practice time and rounds sent successfully downrange for any new shooter to get confident with any given firearm. This young lady needs CONFIDENCE in her ability to use whatever hardware she gets, and she needs MINDSET to use it and not shilly-shally around and let an assailant take it from her.

    Without MINDSET and CONFIDENCE engendered by training and practice, she is no better off than being without a firearm, and could be worse off if her firearm winds up arming her assailant.

    In my old age I tend to favor letting female trainers train female shooters. YMMV of course. See http://www.corneredcat.com/ for one of the better sites on the web for female shooters.

    If you do go with a shotgun- Heavy 20 ga. loads in a lighter 20 ga. pumpgun are almost certainly going to kick worse than reduced recoil 12 ga. loads in a heavier 12 ga. gun. GUN FIT IS CRITICAL with shotguns. Make sure the gun fits the shooter properly and that the shooter has mastered good form and a good gun mount. Good basic training and good practice is critical. More advanced training should be for GUNFIGHTING with a shotgun, not just shooting it safely and succesfully.

    I don't know this young lady, or anything about her level of maturity, shooting background, abilities, confidence level etc. I am in no real position to offer much beyond the above, which is very general indeed.

    It isn't enough...

    lpl/nc
     
  21. Bailey Guns

    Bailey Guns Member

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    I'd definitely not get stuck on a shotgun. Why not have her try a couple of guns...say a 12 or 20 gauge with some fairly light loads, then a smaller caliber rifle (ie: a .223, maybe a Mini-14, Saiga or Kel-Tec) and a few handguns. If she's comfortable with one over the other, let her choose then train her properly.

    I prefer a light, handy, shorter-barreled rifle (such as a Mini-14 or AR-15) over a shotgun any day for home defense.
     
  22. Mr. Designer

    Mr. Designer Member

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    Get a 12 gauge with an 18" barrel and load it with 2.75" low recoil 00 Buckshot. Or a large frame 38 revolver.
     
  23. strat81

    strat81 Member

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    I'm a small guy and cannot shoulder full-size shotguns (or rifles) properly. The result is that I effectively use a 12ga. Shorter stocks work fine for me. But then there are the capacity and recoil issues.

    While I might be tarred and feathered for saying this in the shotgun forum, have you considered a rifle? A .223 Saiga with hi-cap mags and M193, 64gr soft points, or Hornady 68+gr TAP should do nicely. Low recoil, easy operation. I'd prefer an AR-15, but that's out of your specified price range.

    Otherwise, maybe a pistol caliber carbine that accepts Glock 33-rd mags. Load it with some hot +P rounds and hope for the best.

    Competency with a pistol is obtainable if she is willing to practice. But, she'll have to practice with any weapon she chooses. You can still miss with a shotgun.

    +1 on the cell phone, BTW. And, if she is physically able, get enrolled in some type of martial arts classes, something geared towards self-defense. An Eskrima class would be good too if she's willing to learn how to fight with a knife or stick.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskrima

    If you are near Northern or Central NJ, I can recommend a martial arts school.
     
  24. MASTEROFMALICE

    MASTEROFMALICE member

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    The gun takes second place to competence.

    Does she understand that she needs to learn how to use the gun, whatever it may be?

    Pointing a shotgun at someone is meaningless if you're being beaten with your own shotgun 30 seconds later.

    On the flip side, a few months ago a Marine with a folding knife killed a robber who was armed with a gun.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2008
  25. Milkmaster

    Milkmaster Member

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    To answer the original question as asked without lectures about what is suitable for home defense...

    For a smaller stature person who doesn't need the additional length of the receiver on a pump or semi-auto, I would choose a side by side 20 gauge model. The overall gun out to the barrel is shorter which makes the weight and length easier to handle and hold up. A shorter 20" barrel will help even better.
     
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