He brought a gun to a knife fight,

[atomd]

hey good for you Ive got one too but I dont walk around my house with it. You picked a poor arguement with that example I never said I dont have a gun in my house. I never said I dont have ammo. I never said Its not near by nor did I say I couldnt readily get to it. It goes in the safe I can get to it rather quickly.

Just out of curiosity..do you believe that you can get to your safe, unlock it, get your firearm and load it in time during say...a home invasion? Also, why not have the guns loaded if they are already inside a safe? I would say that you probably couldn't get to them "readily". But that's ok because you will never need them anyways. Also, you might have a hard time swinging around a 6' pike pole in that small house. (what the heck?)

You can store your firearms any way you please....and think whatever you want about how quickly you need to access one but I think CNYCacher's example was dead on there.

 

[BridgeWalker]

and folks can argue any point but you dont keep a spare battery in your trunk with a full gas can just because you might.......

Actually, I've been called an irresponsible parent on this forum for failing to do just that. I still don't

 

[Eric F]

BridgeWalker I feel for you some of these guys here will jump on you for anything. Including unloading guns locking guns up and not carring guns aparently. Even though some one who does not do all of the above still suports doing the above.

Hey every one has the right to make beer but most folks do not exercise this right either

 

[doc540]

Maybe the family knew guns and saw it was a Raven .25 before they threw it out of the house.

 

[sammoh]

If it was a Raven .25, I'd have thrown it out the window too. I "confiscated" one from a gang banger kid who threatened me with it. He peed his pants and ran when he ended up on the ground and I had his pop gun.

I called the Milwaukee PD and gave it to them with a description kid. The cop who came to take the gun only shook his head and chuckled at the "toys kids carry these days".

Eric,

I'm quite proficient with a few melee weapons. 20yrs of martial arts practice in Karate, Kenjutsu, Wu Shu and Hung Gar have taught me how to effectively wield a katana, staff, dao (chinese broad sword), nunchaku (worthless btw as weapons) and the fighting sticks (commonly known as escrima). I have a small 2 sword rack on my wall with my Shinto era katana and my shingen katana (the modern one I use for practice). They're both real, folded and dual tempered -- combat ready. I also have 2 spears leaning in a corner of my living room and two staves leaning in the opposite corner. The spears are 7 ft long while the staves are 6 ft long. I also have a naginata (stainless steel blade so its worthless as a weapon) sitting against the same corner that the spears are in. I have escrima laying about in nearly every corner of my home (I teach friends and family but that's another story). My apartment is 800 sq ft. Extremely small, even smaller yet with furniture. Regardless of all the readily available weaponry, I still keep a loaded pistol in my nightstand and a loaded shotgun next to my bed. All my other firearms go hungry in the safe till the next range trip.

Basically, I'd rather take a gun than a sword, staff or spear. If the perp has a gun, even in my small apartment, there can be distances of 15+ ft with furniture in the way. I'd rather not have to close on a BG in my home to be able to fight with a sword or escrima. I can also say that using a 6+ft weapon in confined spaces like that (especially with standard height ceilings) is awkward and cumbersome. Not ideal for defense in close quarters. Then there's the idea the BG might have a gun. Don't take a knife, sword, staff etc to a gun fight. If they're not within reach, you're dead.

Just my thoughts there... and yes, my choice.

Sam

 

[atomd]

"You know, there's like a boat-load of gangs at this school. This one gang kept wanting me to join because I'm pretty good with a bow staff"

"Nunchuku skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills... Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills"

 

[Eric F]

I can also say that using a 6+ft weapon in confined spaces

It would not be the first thing I would grab.

Come on guys there are lots of gun owners that do not keep loaded guns on them all the time weather home or not just accept that fact would you.

I am well safe in my castle I am not dumb or ignorant about security I have other measures I keep so I do not need a gun on my person in my own home.

If some folks would not worry about all the what ifs in life they will find they will enjoy life a lot more. And that means exactly what it says dont read into it!

 

[The Tourist]

Then there's the idea the BG might have a gun. Don't take a knife, sword, staff etc to a gun fight. If they're not within reach, you're dead.

I understand your concerns. My comments were obviously directed to the idea of "within contact distances."

The idea of defense in its pure form is to get the aggressor on his back in the shortest possible time affording you the least amount of harm.

The faulty assumption is that a gun always trumps a knife. Ayoob once commented that some Escrima moves leave wounds appearing as lethal as a shotgun slug.

Of course, if I hear window glass breaking and my Tussey 1911 is on the coffee table I'm not going to jump up, rummage through a drawer, and find a nice knife.

However, if I grab an attacker, and I have a good quality knife, like an HD-7 or a Strider folder, I'm not going to feel I'm automatically a loser.

My intent was to debate that a knife is not always an inferior weapon. People successfully use them every day.

 

[sammoh]

Hmm, computer hacking. If only I were intelligent enough to hack. Ah well, all I can do is chat on forums and check email. Not much more I would really want to do anyway.

 

[javacodeman]

hey good for you Ive got one too but I dont walk around my house with it. You picked a poor arguement with that example I never said I dont have a gun in my house. I never said I dont have ammo. I never said Its not near by nor did I say I couldnt readily get to it. It goes in the safe I can get to it rather quickly.

Hey every one has the right to make beer but most folks do not exercise this right either

Several things Eric:

1. No one is saying that you do not have the right to do what you desire. This is not a debate about rights. In order to "win" your argument, you keep going back to this truth which is moot to the real debate.

2. The real debate is whether or not it is smart to unload and lock up your guns.

3. The fire extinguisher example is on point. Your rhetoric about living so many years and not needing a gun is your own justification for your gun being inaccessabile. It would be tantamount to leaving a fire extinguisher in the attic because one has never been needed in the kitchen (where a majority of house fires start).

4. Being prepared does not equal being paranoid. I am much more at ease when I am prepared when facing any task: examination, performance, teaching, defending my house. No one tells a musician that they are "paranoid" for practicing and preparing for a performance. The difference is that the performance is not a life/death situation, the date and time are scheduled of the performance is known, and there is a high likelyhood of it occuring. You should still be prepared for both.

5. You yourself have admitted that you have no experiance with a need for a gun in your home while others have had that experiance. Shouldn't you try to learn from them instead of vice versa? It's like your telling them, "I've never taken a test, but this study method works great for me!" This doesn't make sense.

6. There may be some middle ground. I keep my defense firearms in a "safe" with a digital touchpad. This keeps them out of the hands of my children and would be attackers trying to use it against me, but also allows me quick access. (I know that the thing is not 100% safe. My children when they grow up, if dedicated enough could get into it. A thief could steal the entire "safe" and open it later. It does meet my desires for a middle ground of being safe and being prepared.)

java

 

[AndyC]

Well, Lady Luck smiled on them and they won the fight - that's all that really counts. Hopefully they'll be better-prepared in future.

 

[alsaqr]

Yep, the putrid media gave the folks address.

 

[Eric F]

In order to "win" your argument

I am not trying to win an arguement. I was just trying to point out that every one does not "need" or "have" to have a loaded gun in their house/

whether or not it is smart to unload and lock up your guns

I agree........its a personal and case to case issue

Being prepared does not equal being paranoid

I agree, I did not mean to imply that. However there is a fine line between the two. Is the guy that hordes 100k of ammo and owns 200 guns prepared or is he paranoid? I guess that depends on how you look at it. Attitude plays a huge role in that call. I know several people that I lable paranoid gun owners just based on every time I talk to them some one in always watching or "hey man that guy over there has a gun or Hey is the person behind me looking at me" ect.

Shouldn't you try to learn from them instead of vice versa?

There may be some middle ground

I do and there is My safe is in my room with a digital pad. The reason I unload my guns when I put them up is so they are known to be unloaded. It didnt work out too well for me the other way around once. Lesson learned.

Any way this thread is not about me any way. I am glad the situation worked out in the case of the folks in the article
Thanks for the insite guys
Enough Said

 

[javacodeman]

The reason I unload my guns when I put them up is so they are known to be unloaded.

This is still another thread, but doesn't one of the four rules required us to "know" all guns to be loaded. I've even heard it proposed on this forum (although I do not subscribe to it) to actually load every gun regardless to help this rule out.

 

[jakemccoy]

Eric,

I'm just glad you're pro-gun (I think).

Regards,
Jake McCoy

 

[highorder]

has anyone confirmed that the gun was loaded and in working order?


hell, a fire extinguisher is a decent weapon in close quarters; from standoff capabilities to blunt force trauma...

 

[sammoh]

Tourist,

Within contact distances, I'd be happy to tangle with a gunman. My bet is I'll have the gunman disarmed before they can hurt me. Been threatened at close range on more than a couple occasions (bad luck?) and each time I've been able to negate the threat by disarming the person. With enough training, this is completely possible. Yes, escrima can leave wounds similar to shotgun wounds. A 3" blade can also leave wounds that are more fatal than a gunshot wound too. I'm just saying that in a home defense situation, I'd rather be standing 15 ft away with a firearm than trying to get into contact distance to do anything. Less chance of getting harmed that way.

Sam

 

[gunsmith]

The spelling here on THR is really going downhill

Can some of you guys/gals get firefox/mozilla? it comes with a spell check.
Some of the arguments here would be valuable if the spelling was at least on a 9th grade level.

Maybe the family knew guns and saw it was a Raven .25 before they threw it out of the house

My first gun was a Raven, it was accurate,reliable and concealable.
I wish I had never sold it....even though I made quite a profit.

 

[revjen45]

I DO carry on my person in my home at all times. My bathrobe had a hole worn in the pocket by the muzzle. Must also say that unless I'm going out I am wearing my robe and sweats, so it's not as odd as it first sounds.

 

[The Tourist]

Tourist, I'm just saying that in a home defense situation, I'd rather be standing 15 ft away with a firearm than trying to get into contact distance to do anything.

And I agree.

 

[GrumpyUnk]

I can understand what Eric is saying. Don't unnecessarily agree, but that's ok. I don't carry around the house all the time, but I do have firearms accessible if needed. I also have tools, baseball bats, shovels, etc, that I have kept in the same spots around the homestead for years & I know they're gonna be there. Ya know, just in case.
+1 on fire extinguishers.

 

[Zoogster]

A gun not ready for use is a gun not likely to be involved in self defense.
Unlike the movies you probably won't awake to the sound of a break in, quickly do a combination and then wait or go to meet the criminal in a home invasion (does happen but not as common for home invasions.)

More likely you will be awake, out in your living room, eating at the dining room table with the family (an ideal time for a home invasion since everyone is in one room that can be controlled, and most people don't bring firearms to the table) or answering the door.
It would happen fast.

At that point if you choose to run from the scene to arm yourself the bad guy is likely to be right on your heels chasing you to make sure you don't call anyone or get a firearm. That means you will likely reach a safe at the same time they do. If they are already armed they have the advantage. If you are going for a safe or an unloaded firearm they will probably get the first and maybe the last shot off.
I don't care how fast you think you are when calm and collected, no adrenaline pumping, and didn't just sprint through your home with someone chasing you. In that situation you will be slower than you think removing it, and still have to at least aim if not load the firearm by the time they have caught up to you and pointed a firearm at you.

Then there is the flip side that you don't want to leave firearms available for theft when you are not home. You also need to store them out of the reach of children.
How you accomplish both being ready defensively and reducing the risk of thier theft or use by those you don't want using them is a balance requiring individual discretion.
Something different works for different people and fits different needs.

 

[koja48]

most people don't bring firearms to the table

. . . and some folks do . . . "will you please pass the hollow-points, Dad?"

 

[ColinthePilot]

I used to carry around the house, usually open, in my hand, then let the coffee table do the work. I also didn't have kids in the house. Now I live on an AF base where I can't even keep mine in my possession. I feel pretty safe, not because I think the cops are any quicker, but I have a basic trust of those who live around me and have access to the base. Off base, I feel naked without my carry piece, but I've gotten used to it.

As for throwing the gun outside, it may have been the best idea instead of an inexperienced person trying to use it and risk letting the intruder get it back. it got it away from all dangerous possibilities.