Heads-Up If You CCW in Ohio - Video Is Up!

[browneu]

I see several issues.

Dispatch didn't notify the officer of the permit when the officer first ran the plates.

The permit holder failing to notify. I know I'm going to take heat for that comment but he had more opportunities to notify than originally thought.

The permit holder engaging on suspicious activities while armed. Whether he's innocent of those activities are debatable but it did look questionable when the officer arrived.

The officer over reacting while trying to make a point.

I don't see this as an officer against CCW but against someone carrying and using poor judgment. While I believe the officer's words were excessive I can understand his reaction and don't know if I'm incapable of reacting similarly if I realized I could have been shot not ten minutes prior.

Sent from my LG-P999 using Tapatalk

 

[Yo Mama]

OFCC is raising money for Williams.

 

[Cosmoline]

The CCW holder should have told him regardless. You cannot be convicted of complying with the law, and there is no law I'm aware of against speaking after a cop tells you not to. This is not a grade school class, and your legal obligations are what they are regardless of what some roid raging criminal in a uniform screams. You have to stay calm, inform as required, deny all consent requests and refuse to make a statement until you have counsel.

Of course the cop was totally out of control and needs to be kicked off the force NOW. Any cop who threatens to "put lumps" on a suspect is a huge, huge, huge, huge, huge HUGE liability. A walking law suit, or worse. And now here's some nice evidence to use against him anytime he denies having threatened to beat or kill suspects in ANY case in the future. The DA will be left scrambling to argue impeachment on a collateral matter, and good luck with that.

 

[HOOfan_1]

Wow, is Canton Police department a law enforcement agency or a street gang? Itimidation, threats of physical violence, threats of deadly force. Sounds like a street thug, not a cop. Kick him off the force, put him behind bars for a little while and penalize the agency for having someone like that around.

 

[Deanimator]

The CCW holder should have told him, but the cop was totally out of control and needs to be kicked off the force NOW.

If, as was clearly the case, the cop WAS "totally out of control", the victim may have been completely justified in not pressing the issue. He tried to notify a COUPLE of times and was thwarted. That's on the cops.

I'm willing to risk getting beaten, tazed, or shot in order to notify so that I have proof positive, but not everybody is, nor do I expect them to be.

 

[Cosmoline]

That's on the cops.

I believe the statutory obligations override the police instructions to shut up. The important thing is to comply with the law even if you're talking over the officer, and to keep your hands in plain sight.

Obviously this cop was very far over the line and has no business in uniform at all, but there may be other situations where LEO's are trying to trick you into committing a crime and I can't tell you they're forbidden from doing that. I wish I could, but they frequently put people in prison through trickery, threats (within permissible bounds) and lies. It's part of the job.

For example, a pair of cops doing a vehicle stop may distract and confuse you by appearing at both windows at the same time, knocking on various windows to get you turning the other way before approaching the driver side, and may do a song and dance to throw you off kilter. None of that excuses a failure to inform as required. You've just got to keep your wits about you. I'm not sure what a direct order to "shut up" does, but I would not bank on it overriding the duty to inform.

 

[Dnaltrop]

Holy Moley...

I keep my CHL sandwiched on top of my ODL... if for some reason I'm stupid enough to get pulled over (it's been many many years) it'll be the first thing the Officer sees.

Sue, and don't settle. I'd love to see a case resolved without the Non-disclosure agreement at the end someday.

 

[denster]

Wow. After 35 years in law enforcement (Now retired) I've seen some bad behavior by cops but this takes the cake.
The guy may or may not have been tryi8ng to pick up a prostitute and may have been illegaly parked. The circumstances gave the cops the right to check it out but it went straight down hill from there.
Looks like at least a million in civil damages in a quick settlement. Obviously the guy allready has an attorney as the dash cam video wouldn't have been released except on discovery. I'll bet he had attorneys lined up begging for a chance to take this case on a contingency.
Hopefully those two cops are fired and criminally charged. I'm a retired cop and I have no pity on jerks like those. Cops like those just make a difficult job even more difficult for the rest of us.

 

[ants]

I believe there is great value to spreading the video around.

Every good officer can learn from a bad officer's mistakes.



Can we confirm what the charges are.

If you have a link to the charges, please provide it.
If you simply THINK you know the charges because you read it on the internet somewhere,
I'm asking for something more concrete.

 

[Mike1234567]

Just because someone wears a blue uniform doesn't "automatically" mean they're the good guy. It's tragic cops like this give others a bad rep. It's a sign that our police chiefs aren't doing their jobs.

 

[Justin Holder]

This would make for a good cop training video. "What not to do at a traffic stop"

 

[Canazes9]

Can we confirm what the charges are.

If you have a link to the charges, please provide it.
If you simply THINK you know the charges because you read it on the internet somewhere,
I'm asking for something more concrete.

Don't know if this is concrete enough for you - this is his attorney posting: client charged w/ failure to notify....

http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53994

David

 

[CWL]

The permit holder failing to notify. I know I'm going to take heat for that comment but he had more opportunities to notify than originally thought.

The permit holder engaging on suspicious activities while armed. Whether he's innocent of those activities are debatable but it did look questionable when the officer arrived.

The officer over reacting while trying to make a point.

I don't see this as an officer against CCW but against someone carrying and using poor judgment. While I believe the officer's words were excessive I can understand his reaction and don't know if I'm incapable of reacting similarly if I realized I could have been shot not ten minutes prior.

The individual was compliant at all times. He was not trying to escalate in a situation where he was scared and the police certainly behaved like they were ready to commit violence on him. Did you fail to see that the policeman asked questions but didn't listen to his answers? The driver also had his permit in his hands the entire time and tried to wave it in front of the police but was ignored. They couldn't even find the permit after he already told them it was in his hand.

US law presumes innocence until proven guilty, and this is done by the Judiciary, not by the Executive (police). Whatever the individual was doing there, the police sure didn't seem to care enough to file charges or detain the others.

That officer crossed the line beyond "excessive" as soon as he started threatening physical violence on a restrained & compliant suspect. As for the LEOs "anger", they didn't follow basic procedures in securing the car and the individuals right from the beginning. Being angry for failing to follow your training is no excuse to threaten to "execute" any suspect.

I hope both officers are sitting at desks until this is resolved. Even though one officer did all of the abuse, his partner had a duty to help keep him in control, especially since it looks like he was an older (more experienced?) officer.

 

[MisterMike]

Quote:
Originally Posted by ants View Post
Can we confirm what the charges are.

If you have a link to the charges, please provide it.
If you simply THINK you know the charges because you read it on the internet somewhere,
I'm asking for something more concrete.

Don't know if this is concrete enough for you - this is his attorney posting: client charged w/ failure to notify....

http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53994

David

The officers' behavior is horrific. I can't see how the prosecutor can ethically pursue this, given the unequivocal evidence.

I also have a further concern regarding the implied threat to continue the prosecution unless the defendant agrees not to sue the officers and the police department (the offer described by the defendant's attorney). The Ohio Rules of Professional Responsibility are similar to the ethical rules governing lawyers everywhere, providing: "a lawyer shall not present, participate in presenting, or threaten to present criminal charges . . . solely to obtain an advantage in a civil manner." In my view, that' exactly what the prosecutors are doing--threatening to prosecute the guy (or, more accurately, not to drop unmerited criminal charges) in exchange for a deal not to pursue civil damages.

It all stinks.

 

[recondoc]

Both Officers on that stop deserve to lose their badges, pensions and any other perks associated with law enforcement. Officer #1 for his behavior toward a law abiding citizen of state of Ohio and Officer #2 for failing to do his job in protecting that citizen from both the Assault & Battery that was committed upon him by Officer #1. (Assault being the threat and battery the laying on of hands. Feel free to correct me here if I'm wrong. I am not in Law Enforcement.) To stand idly by and allow that behavior from a fellow officer shows that Officer #2 lacks the integrity to be in his chosen occupation and will, most likely, end up dirty. If he's willing to keep his mouth shut while this stop is happening, what else is he willing to look the other way on?
I am married into an extremely honorable Law Enforcement Family with both a prior PD Captain in the lineage as well as a Distinguished DEA Agent. To see dirt bags like the "officers" in this video walking around with a badge and attempting to even stand in the same space with my family members makes me want to puke.
(On a side note: Does anyone else suspect Steroid use by Officer #1? He looks the part of a steroid user much more than the female looked like a hooker)

These guys are an example of the exact kind of "Officers" that a tyrannical government would love to have patrolling the streets for "our own safety".

 

[Dave Workman]

Bubbles:
Here's my take. Thanks for posting this thread.

OUTRAGE: Fury erupts over Ohio traffic stop video; NW activists join debate

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-...o-traffic-stop-video-nw-activists-join-debate

 

[kentucky7887]

I thought I was watching a police drama at first, not a real dash cam. If he has a good lawyer he'll be a rich man. He was probably in fear of his own life after all the threats he received.

 

[DWC]

Gross, vile abuse of power

IMO this LEO should be, at a minimum, terminated; sent to prison for felony assault; and restricted from possession of a firearm for a long, long time.

I am confident the civil litigation will be huge.

This LEO appears to be that 1 in 1,000 really bad cop.

Semper Fi,

 

[Danb1215]

You gotta put on some pretty thick rose colored glasses to think this poor guy did anything wrong. You have here a guy arrested for violating one stupid contrived (unconstitutional) law while being "investigated" for violating an equally senseless law.
Failure to notify? Just about the most onerous gun control law on the books...violates more constitutional protections that any other law I can think of off hand.
Soliciting a prostitute? I've got 4 words: No victim, no crime.

And if this type of cop is really only 1 in 1,000 than I must be running some terrible luck.

 

[jcwit]

One of our FINEST that demand respect!

No wonder folks are beginningg to fear law enforcement.

 

[thedrewcifur]

one of the posters on here made a point. no victim, no crime. so why do we need permits to carry our guns concealed? and how is it legal for the government to have any gun control laws? "shall not be infringed"

 

[EddieNFL]

Lack of emotional control, ability to communicate and poor vocabulary aside, this guy isn't smart enough to be a cop.

I think he got so pissed off because he screwed up and put himself in a potentially deadly situation.

 

[Jeff H]

I think he got so pissed off because he screwed up and put himself in a potentially deadly situation.

ding, ding, ding. I think we have a winner.

When was the last time that you ever saw a cop pull over a car, even a parked car, and fail to approach the driver 1st??? This officer got distracted and off on some tangent for 5 minutes without even identifying who was in the driver's seat of the car.

Not being a cop, I would think that this is protocol, but I have no idea for sure.

 

[Johnny_Come_Lately]

While it certainly is a possibility - maybe even likely - you can't know that. There's no positive evidence on the video that he was soliciting a prostitute, and he is to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. Talking or giving a ride to a woman at night, even one with two prior arrests for prostitution, is not breaking the law.

Disclaimer: I am a sworn Law Enforcement Officer.

I am not saying definitively that the guy was picking up a hooker, far from it. That being said, I'm not saying he wasn't either. No one can watch this video and honestly say the driver wasn’t engaging in something questionable any more so than anyone can say definitively he was doing something illegal. What SHOULD have happened in this situation, the two LEO’s should have properly investigated this questionable behavior and let what if any evidence lead them down a proper path.

Saying that though let me offer an analogy. If a rattlesnake is lying on the ground in front of me, what should I do? Even though I am well within my RIGHTS to step over it, I do so at the risk of being bitten. In other words, if one goes looking for trouble, then they usually find it.

Finally, let me go on record as being totally appalled at the behavior of both officers. Though I only watched about 2/3’s of the video, I saw nothing that resembled anything I have been trained to do in my seven years as a LEO. It is my opinion that neither officer has any business whatsoever wearing a peace officer uniform.

In addition, if I were the driver I would run not walk to the very best attorney I could fine. When I got finished with them their wages would be garnished for the rest of their retched lives.

 

[Johnny_Come_Lately]

When was the last time that you ever saw a cop pull over a car, even a parked car, and fail to approach the driver 1st??? This officer got distracted and off on some tangent for 5 minutes without even identifying who was in the driver's seat of the car.

Sorry but I don't think for a moment the officer acted this way because failed to approach the driver first.

I think the officer acted this way because he WRONGLY feels he is above the law and can do whatever he wants.

I can only hope that he has spent his last moment ever in a LEO uniform.