Heads-Up If You CCW in Ohio - Video Is Up!

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The dumbest part of all of this is the cop actually believes that licensed carriers telling them they have a firearm is likely to protect officers in similar situations with a bad guy that would use said gun.


Many of the bad guys that shoot cops have records, are repeat offenders, are not registered with the state as having firearms, and are certainly not going to tell officers they have a firearm before using it if they are going to use it.


The officer yelling about how that is cops get killed is idiotic. No cops don't get killed because someone with a legal weapon does not notify them, they get killed because they don't assume everyone potentially has a gun, especially those not on record as legal carry permit holders.
Cops should treat everyone as if they are armed and a potential threat, including those with and without a permit.

This is why the whole duty to notify crap is BS.
It does not protect officers, a citizen can still choose to do it without a legal requirement when warranted, and can refrain from exciting certain officers unnecessarily during routine traffic tickets.
While the criminal with an illegal gun and more likely to be a lethal threat is not going to notify anyways, and dispatch won't have him on record as armed.
So it doesn't protect officers, but can endanger citizens legally carrying. Can you imagine if the partner searching the car had been told the driver was carrying, and then that officer loudly exclaimed to the officer that had the tantrum "He's got a gun"? Officer Tantrum could have easily overreacted, pulled his gun hearing of the lethal threat, and either been ready to fire or worse thinking his buddy was calling for assistance.
The nature of a partner hearing there is a gun may not always be interpreted in the proper context.
 
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What a POS, If that officer isn't fired the citizens of the City of Canton should demand that the Chief of Police be fired. There isn't any excuse for that type of behaviour from a public servant. Gestapo, Stormtrooper POS. Just who the he** do some of these cops (not all) think they are....last I checked they worked for us...do any of you go into work and speak to your employer like that? I think not, you'd quickly find yourself unemployed! That officer, no both officers and the Chief should be immediaetly terminated, the citizend of Canton OH deserve nothing less.
 
cwl1862 said:
What a POS, If that officer isn't fired the citizens of the City of Canton should demand that the Chief of Police be fired.
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Yeah I am not sure what there is to investigate here. That video is the proof. He is a public servant. Working with the public is his job, with that comes certain expectations of good customer service skills. Even as unfriendly as the DMV is considered by most, if he was a DMV employee and threatened a customer like that, he would likely have been canned right away certainly most government employees would have a chance to grieve their termination, but he would have been canned. He certainly would have been canned immediately if he worked for a private customer service firm.

Being a cop shouldn't afford him any more protection than any other civil servant out there, shouldn't afford him any more protection than any other citizen out there.

Maybe these department needs a visit from Dalton from Roadhouse (won't link video, there is non high road language)

kick out the guys that have the wrong attitude

Rule 3 BE NICE

If someone gets in your face and calls you a nasty name...be nice
Ask him to walk, be nice, if he won't walk, walk him, but be nice
Remember, it is a job, it isn't personal
 
That officer, no both officers and the Chief should be immediaetly terminated
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Something I noticed re-watching that petty thug's little tantrum:

Wath carefully, both cops get the citizens out of camera view for almost all hands-on stuff.
The backseat passenger/victim gets cuffed out of frame, all you see is his head peeking into view. The driver/victim gets dragged out of frame to the left as fast as possible, too.

I wonder if these clowns have a habit of "putting lumps on" just out of view of their accountability cameras?
 
Something I noticed re-watching that petty thug's little tantrum:

Wath carefully, both cops get the citizens out of camera view for almost all hands-on stuff.
The backseat passenger/victim gets cuffed out of frame, all you see is his head peeking into view. The driver/victim gets dragged out of frame to the left as fast as possible, too.

I wonder if these clowns have a habit of "putting lumps on" just out of view of their accountability cameras?
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You made a very good observation. Furthermore, what this may mean is; the LEOs obviously knew they had the dash cam and it could be reviewed by his higher ups. They weren't afraid of getting in trouble with their superiors with being verbally abusive (an understatement) but thought it best to do the actual physcial stuff off camera.
 
Watch carefully, both cops get the citizens out of camera view for almost all hands-on stuff.
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I noticed that too, but they also know there is audio being recorded, yet say things about shooting the guy as soon as they saw the gun? I'm hoping for sheer stupidity but in reality I believe these guys truly believe they're above all citizens and can do whatever they want. And therein is the problem...
 
Accountability, it's absolutely necessary and sometimes to the untrained, the applications can be very cruel and defies logic until you look much deeper. It has been posted here that the Canton PD Officer in question has 16 complaints against him since 2000. If this is the case, Canton, Ohio has a serious problem. Once again, I gotta go long on this one. I'll do my best to make it worth everyone's while. Law Enforcement and the military have very very different missions. What they do share in common is a chain of command or a chain of leadership. I remember facing a command selection board chaired by the Wing Commander, a Brigadier General (1 Star for all of you civilians out there) I was asked to share my thoughts about "command." I replied to the General, "Sir, it might be the easiest job out there." I let the air go dead for a few seconds as he raised his eyebrows at me and I knew he wanted a response. I said, "Sir, a commander is responsible for three things, 1) MISSION, 2)TRANING, 3)PERSONNEL. Sir, mission will always come first, training and personnel may be interchangeable. The unit may have highly trained personnel but undermanned, which means you gotta go work with your recruiters. On the other hand you can have all the personnel your manning document authorizes for the unit but many are not properly trained, now you have a training deficit. General, the devil is in the details. the commander must find, place, position, and promote the people that perform the mission for which I will be responsible to you and this country. Sir, command may look simple at the surface, but like I said, the Devil is always in the details." The General's face showed no expression but I had this strange feeling I had scored a direct hit with him. A day later, the Wing's Senior enlisted advisor (who was also in the room during the interview) sought me out and discreetly took me aside, and told me, "Sir, we never had this conversation but I'm here to tell you the General said to all of us that he's never heard a better answer from a subordinate officer. He was impressed." I was stationed at Travis AFB in the early 1980's when a couple of C-141's were involved in two accidents resulting in major damage. A few months later, a C-5 flying a local are training mission belly landed with wheels in the well. This was another major accident. The accident investigation team from HQ Military Airlift Command (MAC), Scott AFB found substantial errors and poor management of flight training records. The Wing Commander was relieved by the Commanding Four Star General of MAC. Wing Commanders are wing commanders because they are considered to be the best among their peers and they're going to become generals if they can be successful wing commanders. Unfortunately, this Wing Commander never became a General. A few years later, the USS Enterprise ran aground coming into it's home port (at the time) Alameda Naval Air Station after a six month cruise in the Pacific. The skipper was relieved and lost his chance for promotion to Admiral. Where's the logic in all of this. The Yeoman at the wheel and the Officer of the Deck were probably directly responsible for running the Enterprise aground but it was ultimately the responsibility of the Ship's Captain to ensure they were properly trained. The "stuff" not only rolls downhill it rolls uphill as well. The officer in question has 16 complaints against him in 11 years? This averages a little under 1.5 complaints/year. WTFO!?!?!?!? YGTOBSM?? This IS a failure of leadership to train. The chief of police and the senior members of his administration deserve nothing less than to be relieved for cause and the POA Union can quite frankly, go perform some unnatural acts upon themselves. THIS IS BEYOND THE PALE.
 
Accountability, it's absolutely necessary and sometimes to the untrained, the applications can be very cruel and defies logic until you look much deeper.
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Absolutely agreed, but our government, businesses, and society as a whole have made accountability a foreign word to many people. Nobody seems to be responsible for anything anymore. It has been proven that you can literally get away with murder, and that has become a fact of life for this new "it's all about me" generation.
 
bigfatdave said:
"questionable"?
Being stopped for a moment in a "no parking" zone is hardly probable cause.
How does anyone know the victim was there longer than needed to drop off his friend and his friend's date?
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You don't know if the person was stopped there for only a moment. Perhaps the officer made several passes before stopping. Of course this is speculation just like stating they were there for just a moment is speculation.

I'm also surprised by some of the posts nonchalant attitude of the suspect attempting to solicit, if that truly was his motive.

Lets say he was trying to solicit and the officer is correct about the other two being a known prostitute and pimp. The situation wouldn't have occurred if the suspect wasn't attempting to do something illegal.

Lets say the assumption is correct that he did know the other two and just gave them a ride to that location and was only there for a moment. Then your assumption would be correct.

However both scenarios are just assumptions as we don't know what happened prior to the video.

Taking all emotion out of the equation the officer overreacted. The suspect should have notified regardless of being told to keep quiet. Again, suggesting what would happen if he continued to speak is speculation.


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I wonder if these clowns have a habit of "putting lumps on" just out of view of their accountability cameras?
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Pop quiz:

Q - What was the one infraction previously sustained against Harless?
A - Not turning on his dashcam.

Gee, I wonder how many of the fifteen other complaints involved things that happened when the dashcam was off...
 
Lets say he was trying to solicit and the officer is correct about the other two being a known prostitute and pimp. The situation wouldn't have occurred if the suspect wasn't attempting to do something illegal.
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Had the officers both followed established policies and procedures that night for detaining and searching the suspects, they would have ended up with three arrests (and very likely convictions), rather than the current Charlie Foxtrot, and the Canton Chief would have been able to point to a case where one of those "evil permit holders" in his town got picked up for committing a crime.

Instead, the two arrests (the woman was cut loose) are tainted, as is every arrest these two have made going back for many years.
 
Instead, the two arrests (the woman was cut loose) are tainted, as is every arrest these two have made going back for many years.
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That cop is like a Humboldt squid caught on a jig. He is TERRIBLY vulnerable to lawsuits by ANYBODY whom he ever arrested or with whom he had a negative encounter.

Combine this video with the sustained disciplinary action against him for not turning on his dashcam and the other squid are circling him, just looking for the opportunity to strike in civil court. If just ONE dismissed complaint appears to have been swept under the carpet, he'll be nothing but gobbets of flesh and a cloud of ink and blood in civil court... and probably the department with him.

It's what happened to the Chicago Police Department over it's organized torture operation. The final bill ran to something like $100,000,000.
 
I have a question for any LEOs on here. Is is SOP for departments to review cruiser cam footage randomly or only when a complaint is filed?

The reason I ask is this. Last year I accepted a position as a VP in an elementary school. We did both formal observations of teachers and aides, as well as drop in or walk bys. We do our best to keep a pretty good eye on what is happening in our school. Further more we randomly pull bus video to observe how the bus drivers manage their bus as well as letting us observe student behavior. Now this is on top of pulling security cam video of the lunch room and halls or from the buses when their is a problem or complaint. As a manager/supervisor/administrator it is my responsibility to keep track of how my department/school etc is running. I don't do that by waiting till something hits the fan before I actually try to see whats going on.
 
NO
Nowhere in this nation is there somewhere the citizens should be treated like that.
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In reference to my note of the police in the area being strict.
Nothing like how the policemen acted in this video.
 
However both scenarios are just assumptions as we don't know what happened prior to the video.
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The difference between the two assumptions is that one is giving the citizen the benefit of the doubt and one is a symptom of a nanny-state.
 
This one is confusing, after watching the video it does kinda look like the guy was soliciting but who can tell for sure. And it does look like he had a few opportunities to inform, sure he was interrupted but sometimes you just have to talk right over those interruptions. The cop, Harless, sounds like a dangerously insane guy, serious anger problem. Threatening to execute someone because they didn't immediately let you know they were carrying is grounds enough for me to fire him if I were his boss, very unprofessional.
 
This:
And it does look like he had a few opportunities to inform, sure he was interrupted but sometimes you just have to talk right over those interruptions.
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Then this:
The cop, Harless, sounds like a dangerously insane guy, serious anger problem.
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Would YOU "talk right over" a guy whom YOU admit "sounds like a dangerously insane guy"?

What do you think his reaction to being disobeyed PLUS the gun would have been?

We'd probably be posting links to an execution murder.
 
Some on here are acting as if this is just a matter to be settled between the officer and the department. IMHO there are a number of actual charges that the officer could be guilty of. And has been pointed out earlier, had a non-officer behaved in a similar fashion he would likely have already been charged.

IMHO the officer should be at least charged with

A terroristic threat is a crime generally involving a threat to commit violence communicated with the intent to terrorize another
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and perhaps a Federal charge or two
Federal Color of law.....Excessive force: In making arrests, maintaining order, and defending life, law enforcement officers are allowed to use whatever force is "reasonably" necessary. The breadth and scope of the use of force is vast—from just the physical presence of the officer…to the use of deadly force. Violations of federal law occur when it can be shown that the force used was willfully "unreasonable" or "excessive."
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This idea that officers should be cut slack for legal "mis-stepps" is wrong. Those who enforce our laws should be held to at least the same standard as the rest of us, if not a higher one.
 
I've encountered law enforcement twice while carrying. The first time I was heading from the gun store to the range and found myself going a bit faster than I normally go at the same time I run into a cop doing speed control.

That went well. It was daylight, I knew I was busted as soon as I saw him and pulled over. I fished my license and CCW permit out and held it out the window with the other hand on steering wheel. My first words were I am carrying.

After seeing this video, I wonder if the guy did the same thing I did would have been shot for sticking something that looked like a gun at night out the window by the mental case employed by the Canton OH, PD.

The second time I met law enforcement as during a winter crash when I lost control of my vehicle and was the looser in a head on collision. I informed the officer that first responded on scene that I had a permit and was carrying. The firearm at that time was in the glove box. I had removed it and holster earlier on the way home and stored it there.

He was cool with it. He asked to be sure I retrieved it before my car was towed. Nothing like a cracked sternum, a winter day, a crowd of onlookers and trying to get your gun and put it in a concealment condition w/o anyone noticing it.

I'm pretty liberal about who should carry, I figure those that mess up will sort themselves out. I think this officer sorted himself out. He should never be allowed a position where he has arrest powers or a firearm. Something is wrong with him. Maybe he had 3 partners killed or something but I doubt it, that would have come out by now. I'm tending to think he is one of those 10% types that gravitate to professions for the wrong reasons. Before the Canton PD lets him go, he should get some mental health treatment and evaluation.

Most cops are not like this poor example and are pretty decent people.

Clutch
 
This is a quote from the man's lawyer, posted over on the OHCC site.

"I'd like to make a few points - Where this happened is right outside of a motel. The girl in the video is someone he knew, she was staying there, and asked him for a ride. Along the way, they stopped to pick up her friend. Now, he was stopped in the road, with her getting out of the car, he was still in it. If he was looking to do something with a prostitute, he would have just parked IN the motel parking lot, not stop in the road outside and let her off. Of course, had he done that, we would not be here right now!

I thought he handled it well too, given the circumstances. We all see how the officer reacted by grabbing his gun after he was told he had it. Now, imagine what might have happened had he been loud, maybe even confrontational, and was still seated in the car. How would the officer be able to reach in and get the gun? I have a feeling that William would have gotten a flashlight upside the head! And probably more than once!"

As others have said, the offending PO is not the first problem that the Canton PD has had, the last one (not the only other one) is now serving life imprisonment without the chance of parole for 57 yrs. (Bobby Cutts - murder/aggravated murder)

The Canton PD is not doing a very good job at weeding out the folks who shouldn't be in that position. Different postings (unverified of course, they are just forum postings) has it that the chief is out of touch with his dept.
 
Now, EVERY SINGLE ARREST made by Officer Harless is up for appeal.

He just said on tape that he is capable of falsifying evidence, and his partner backs him up when he does so. How many criminals will be released from jail because of Officer Harless???
 
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