Headspace question

[flhtci2006]

Well, just started resizing/decapping .223 on the H LNL (new to reloading). I tumbled the brass, lubed it with H one-shot then started the resizing/decapping. First issue is that when I check the headspace using my Dillon guage, some are right at the low level and most are above the high level. I have tried adjusting the H new dim die from just touching the shellplate to about 3/4 turn out. Doesn't seem to help the issue. If I take a piece that was resized and is high, then turn the die all the way to touching the shellplate, it still resizes to the same high position.
#2. I stuck a case and broke the decapper/neck sizer so I'm on hold. I think I will replace it with a RCBS die and trie H Unique case lube.

Barry

 

[brickeyee]

"just touching the shellplate to about 3/4 turn out. "

Why would you back the die out if the headspace is already longer than desired?

Do you have an actual headspace measuring gauge?
Have you tried any of the brass in your chamber?

Setting the shoulder back to minimum every time is a recipe for case head failure.

 

[rcmodel]

I stuck a case and broke the decapper/neck sizer so I'm on hold.

That right there is what we like to call a Clue!

If you were using a proper amount of case sizing lube, you wouldn't have stuck a case in a FL die, let alone a neck sizing die..

And all of them would go in & out of the sizing die smoothly & easily.
And all of them would size to the same length.

rc

 

[flhtci2006]

I backed the die out because I wanted to see/compare the results. Being new to this, I was trying to better understand and learn.

Sorry, it wasn't a neck sizer but is a FL die.

The brass should have been lubed quite well. I put them in a plastic bag (about 80 to 100 pieces) and flatted the bag out. I sprayed one-shot liberally on the side that was up. I then as best as possible turned the bag over and sprayed the other side of the brass. I then sprayed some more and with the bag closed massaged the brass to further help spread any lube. I let the brass air dry for over 3 minutes before starting to resize. I got about 75% of the way through before one jammed. With that being said, some of the brass sized high and some low. The handle was pulled all the way down each time.

Anyway, I will get the RCBS die and use the other lube and see what happens.

 

[Walkalong]

Turning it back out will obviously set the shoulder back less, and as rcmodel posted, you need to lube the cases better.

One Shot is notorious for sticking cases if not used right.

Mixed brass will size a little different due to different hardness. Brass that has been fired several times will also be harder and "spring" back more, thus sizing less than new dead soft brass.

If you are going to try a different lube, try RCBS Case Lube II, or Imperial Sizing Die Wax.

 

[gshipps]

I'm wondering if your actually sizing any of them. Take one of those cases that is still long and take your die past touching. Some dies/press setup's may need a half turn past touching. Or more. I have had to remove some off of the bottom of a die before.

 

[steve4102]

Do This.

1. Put the Shell Holder in the press and raise the ram.

2. Screw the Full Length(FL) Die into the press so it is about a "nickle's thickness" above the Shell Holder.

3. Lube a "Fired" case (walls and inside the neck) and squash it.

4. Remove the Lube and try closing the bolt on it in the chamber.

5. If the bolt closes with no resistance, screw the FL Die into the press about 1/8-1/4 turn and repeat steps 3 & 4.

6. As you feel the resistance begin, slow down how much you screw the FL Die into the press so you are at about 1/16 of a turn, or "Fine Tuning". At some point you will not be able to close the bolt and you are extremely close to having the FL Die in the proper position.

NOTE: The reason for this is because the FL Die has begun Resizing the Case-walls down to the Pressure Ring. As it does so, the Case-body lengthens slightly which in turn moves the Case-shoulder slightly forward. Then as the "Fine Tuning" continues the Case-shoulder makes contact with the FL Die and is moved slightly reward(or slightly shortens the Case-head to Case-shoulder dimension).

7. Stop when there is a slight bit of resistance when closing the bolt on the empty case. You now have a "slight crush fit" for the case in that specific chamber, or Zero Headspace.

8. At this point I screw the die in another 1/16 turn for .001-.002 shoulder bump and lock it down.


Now that's the old way of setting up my FL dies. The new way is to use the Hornady Headspace Gauge, much faster and much easier.

 

[Striker Fired]

Are some of the cases hitting on the case mouth(too long,needs to be trimmed) and some hitting the shoulder? Did you check to see if the cases are quite a bit longer than they are supose to be?For rifle cases it is best to stay away from the one shot,even doing it right can cause problems.

Other posibile thing is the shellplate flexing a bit,when the plate is empty the brass may be one length and when the plate is full and all stations are putting even pressure on it,the sized case will be a little different length.

 

[30Cal]

Dings on the case rim will keep from from going into the gage (but don't matter to the rifle).


If you've stuck a case, then you need to fix your lube issue. Re-read the one-shot instructions and follow them exactly. There is zero margin for error with that stuff. If your lube isn't doing it's job, then the headspace is going to be all over the map. Some of them will actually get longer as the expander ball pulls the shoulder forward. Stuck cases should never happen; with a good lube, you don't have to worry about getting it just right.

 

[gamestalker]

I've used dry lube, spray on, and the sticky nasty RCBS lube, and in 3+ decades I've yet to get a case stuck. The trick with spray on lube's is to let them dry well, 3 minutes isn't long enough and your method of lubing is also questionable. I first use a Q tip dipped in lube to lube the inside and outside of the necks if I'm necking only. Other wise, if FL sizing, I lay them in a shoe box or simular type of platform, and spray them on one side role them 180 degree's and spray again. I then allow them to dry for at least 10 minutes, and they slide in and out of the die's like silk, both neck and FL die's.

Properely adjusting a FL die truelly needs to be done with a more measurable means then 1/4 turn, 1/8 turn and so on. Using a feeler guage works very well for precision sizing, bumping shoulder's back so too speak. If your shell holder isn't touching the sizing die, or feeler guage distance off by around .010" as a possible starting point, your not going to be able to easily repeat your resizing process without having to start all over again each time you start a resizing session. And you aren't resizing with measurable results either, in other words your guessing and making determinations based on whether it chambers or not. If that's all your trying to accomplish you would be better off just FL sizing by adjusting the die down until the resistence against the shell holder causes some pop over of the linkage at full ram extension. This won't maintain minimum head space, but it will completely resize the case.

 

[popper]

You didn't say what you are shooting 223 in, I assume a SA as you got a case gauge. Lube a case real good, pull the expander out of the die. Size ( a single stage press would be best) and check with case gauge. the die may be bored too deep and will never let you get proper re-sizing. Check to see what your gun likes, it may be longer than the case gauge says. Write down the difference. Then use the fired primer in a case method to check HS. Do the tests on fired cases, new ones may not be long enough to show problems.

 

[flhtci2006]

It's for the AR15.
Since I broke the expander trying to get the case out of the die (I now have a better idea on how to do this but a day late and a dollar short) I have bought a RCBS dedcap/resizing die.
As for lube, I will ive the Hornady Unique a try. One reason is because everyone in the area is out of the Imperial and from reading, it seams it is basically equivelant.

 

[Hummer70]

You need a case gage from MCS, MCS 166 Pocono Rd. Brookfield, Conn. 06804 203-775-1013 He is open days and some evenings. Tell him you want a MO GAGE for 223.

If you have a 308 or 30.06 get one of them at same time. They are 57.00 and are the best I have seen. You can check them with a GO headspace gage and they will read "0".

Insert fired case from your rifle, screw in gage to get reading which will most likely be +.003 to .006.

Run case up in die and size it till the shoulder is moved back .001 to .002. Thusly if your fired case measures .+.006, a sized case will give you .005 or .004 shoulder setback.

I have four of his gages and have known MO for 30 years. He is a shooter you will see on the line at Camp Perry every year.

 

[popper]

Get a stuck case remover and primer pocket swager (for range pickup crimped primers). Use the H lock rings on the RCBS die - screw the die in tight so it doesn't loosen when sizing many cases. However you set up the die, make sure you can extract sized case easily with the charging handle. i.e. case gauge size may not be what your AR wants. I have the H and RCBS die in 308, have to grind .005 off the shell holder to get the RCBS to work(that make 2 to grind of 5 rifle die I have). You can get a new de-capping pin and rod from H. I like their die. Check to see if is a ROLL crimp die - don't want that for an AR. You inconsistency may be due to lube problem causing flexing of the turret or whatever they call it. Make sure your primers are below flush and firing pin and hole are clean.

 

[flhtci2006]

The following has happened:
1. Installed the RCBS FL sizing die (thoroughly cleaned using H one-shot)
2. Set the die to flush with shellplate, sized a few cases (they were high) then set die to about 1/8 turn deeper causing the "cam-over" feel. This resulted in cases measuring between the two steps of my Dillon headspace guage.
3. Decap pin was set to extract the primer but is closer to not quite extracting versus, let's say over extracting.
4. Prior to the above sizing, I used a small amout of H Unique sizing wax and applied some to a Q tip which I then slightly lubed the inside of the neck.

I have determined that my likely sizing issue was related to a die not being set deep enough and to possibly the lube.

As for Mo's guage, had I have known of it before buying the Dillon, I probably would have gone that way. However, for now, I don't know if the added expense would really support my needs. I will keep it in mind however.

I have a Tika 30-06 I purchased recently for hunting. It isn't great for plinking so I intend to use it only for hunting. Based on the less than 40 rounds per year I expect to use, I don't plan on reloading for it.

I appreciate the replies and support.