Hearing Protection In Actual Firefights Of The US Army?

[jefnvk]

In a pinch, rolled up napkin/kleenex works much better than cartridges. Still not good though.

I can only guess. I would imagine that a spontanous firefight, while not good, probably isn't going to change the overall longevitiy of hearing. Continous exposure to firing, as I am sure some combat units face, over months or years probably does hurt a lot.

If It were me, I could only guess, but I'd probably leave one in, and the other dangling, if I thought I was heading towards any shooting. Less than half the time to stick the other in, no fumbling with the case to get them out. Still have OK hearing of voice commands before anything starts.

 

[Onmilo]

Testing is ongoing to provide electronic hearing protection to all combat soldiers.

Their are some inroads being made in incorporating an electronic hearing protection system into the standard combat helmet.

The hearing protectors will allow the user protection from sudden loud noises while enhancing hearing ability in a normal setting.

Right now their is nothing available to soldiers short of earplugs which impare ability to hear commands and can lead to ear infections and other problems if left in place for long periods of time.

During the rapid deployment involved in a combat shooting situation, there is simply no time to stop and install earplugs.
Soldiers go to shooting and deal with the ringing after the fact, not a good thing.

A plan is in the works in R and D but it may be several months or years before anything comes to pass.

 

[DonNikmare]

WOW = this is something the military SHOULD be thinking about.

Sadly, it probably has to do as much with $ as with the practicality of it. The technology is there to have electronic earplugs that would not make one's head a bigger target and allow one to hear lower volume noises but it would probably cost too much and may not be very durable on the field.

I can hear it now..."Tonight, on Frontline...hearing loss in the army. What is the US government doing about it? Or more accurately, what is the US government not doing about it? We talk/sign to real soldiers whose hearing has become a casualty of war..." Add evil dramatic music in the background.

I'm surprised I have not heard it already or may be it is not as big of a problem as I would expect it would be.

Nik

 

[RevDisk]

If It were me, I could only guess, but I'd probably leave one in, and the other dangling, if I thought I was heading towards any shooting. Less than half the time to stick the other in, no fumbling with the case to get them out. Still have OK hearing of voice commands before anything starts.

I tried that. Really threw off my ability to accurately locate sources of noises quickly. Doing so for extended periods of time made me dizzy. Better than nothing, tho.

Remember to insert the earplug on the side of your head closest to weapon. (Care to guess what I forgot to do once?)

Ear plugs were once as frowned upon as sunglasses, but one does what one can to make-do. We'd field strip the filter from a cigarette, moisten it slightly, then insert. Helpful when trying to get some sleep when it was too noisy to do so otherwise. Cigs came free with C-Rations, and only $.15 a pack if you could get to a PX, so it wasn't as if there was a dearth that would prohibit such use.

GunnyBob, when I hear things like this, I get slightly misty eyed. The current PX prices on smokes are roughly equal to civvie prices, but I've seen them HIGHER than civvie prices on base before. Why does that make me think someone is pocketting a tidy profit?

If I ever get sent overseas again, I'm bringing half a dozen cartons worth of cigarette making supplies. (I roll my own.) I can last until my buddies can MAIL me a steady supply of tobacco.

Testing is ongoing to provide electronic hearing protection to all combat soldiers.

Their are some inroads being made in incorporating an electronic hearing protection system into the standard combat helmet.

A good number of foreign Armies have done this for years already. They looked at us kinda funny when they saw we were still using foam or plastic plugs. If we wanted to save some time and effort, we could ask other folks what they are using and how well it's worked. Not overly expensive, especially when you consider cost to govt for VA benefits after vets lose their hearing.

http://www.revdisk.net/photos/SwedishSF.jpg

Note what's on everyone's head or hands. They work extremely well also.

I bought my own set from a hunting catalog. Works well enough. Not perfect, they mess with your ability to accurately locate the direction a sound comes from.

 

[MikeIsaj]

Life is a series of compromises. You get in your car, you take a risk of becoming one of the 30,000 highway fatalities this year. You do so because you compromise safety for mobility.

Hearing protection is the same. I never said outdoor firing doesn't harm hearing. I said long term harm is negligable when when the choice is returning fire or inserting ear plugs. On the range I have always used muffs or plugs. Indoors I use both.

I'll never risk getting a hole in the middle of my head because I'm busy plugging the ones in the sides of my head.

 

[Tinker]

This topic makes me think of those hardened concrete "pill boxes" that the Germans had set up in WW2. Can you imagine the noise level inside one of those as a couple of machine guns are being used? Maybe that's one reason our guys were able to sneak up and and plop grenades in.....the Germans couldn't hear them sneaking around the flank. I saw some footage of a GI doing this in Europe. He just sneaked around, stood on top of the box and slung some kind of bag charge in the opening. Blew the crap out of the gunners. Shoot, truth be known, they probably couldn't hear him.

 

[Z_Infidel]

I woudn't be surprised if they are testing something along these lines:
http://shop.store.yahoo.com/earplugstore/aosinranplug.html

 

[mons meg]

In the 155mm battery I was in, I *always* wore my plus when we were firing, and I was in the fire direction tent usually a couple hundred yards behind the closest gun in the line. We took it very seriously.

 

[kngflp]

I always thought shooting outside wouldn't be that bad with no protection, until last week. I went shooting and forgot my ears, I fired a few mags thru my AK and my 45 before figureing out that some 9mm hydra shoks fit in my ear nicely. Three days later and my ears are still hurting, sometimes when people are talking to me all of the sudden I just start hearing a high pitched ringing. Never again will I forget my ears.

 

[MarkDido]

Shooting at the range IS hearing protection...

It protects my ears from hearing;

"Honey, would you paint the bathroom, take out the trash, neuter the cat...."

 

[tyme]

I got a couple pairs of those peltor/AO olive/yellow reversible earplugs and used them hunting a month ago. They worked very nicely, though they seemed to work better for rifles than handguns.

Some clown I was with had a .44mag, and it seemed loud... louder than .458mag (I think that's what his rifle was). No ringing afterwards, though, and no appreciable loss of hearing, even temporary.

 

[scout26]

In from '87-'96 hearing protection was part of the uniform. Wore them on the range and any other time we were exposed to loud noises like riding in a Deuce and Half, or C-130's, C-141's and C-5's (airborne and other MAC operations, like catching "hops" out of and into Europe).

 

[jefnvk]

The hearing protectors will allow the user protection from sudden loud noises while enhancing hearing ability in a normal setting.

Seems like somethign they could do. The civvie versions can be found less than $100, so I don't think that cost has a lot to do (ever see the cost of Night Vision). maybew if they could find some way to mount those in a helmet, it could do some good.

I tried that. Really threw off my ability to accurately locate sources of noises quickly. Doing so for extended periods of time made me dizzy. Better than nothing, tho.

Never thought about that aspect of doing so. Of course, my firing is not done in the middle of combat, so such a scenario would have never occured. The dizziness makes sense too.

However, I usually have a problem with the ear opposite the gun (since I hold the gun with the right hand, the left ear).

 

[Moonclip]

My dad says they never wore any kind of hearing protection in firefights or in firing artillery in Vietnam. Maybe thats why the VA is compensating him finally for hearing loss. I've talked to old timers in that were in the Army who did not wear protection while shooting M14's or at most used cigarette butts.

I am surprised the military has not done more to find an acceptable version of the hearing muffs that block out loud sounds but allow you to hear normal sounds. It's kind of a catch 22 I suppose, you are going to damage your hearing but not hearing an enemy or a command could get you killed.

 

[DonNikmare]

I'll never risk getting a hole in the middle of my head because I'm busy plugging the ones in the sides of my head.

A wise saying this is

 

[Houndawg]

I know from experience what a 155mm howitzer sounds like with no hearing protection. We were taking a rest behind our gun at an LFX when a fire mission came in. We all jumped up and while the chief was getting the info I was putting in my plugs. The gun next to us got ready first and fired off a round before I had my plugs in. It felt like my ear drum was going to explode. I got my plugs in in time for us to do our thing and we completed the fire mission. My ears were ringing for quite a while.

 

[RevDisk]

Seems like somethign they could do. The civvie versions can be found less than $100, so I don't think that cost has a lot to do (ever see the cost of Night Vision). maybew if they could find some way to mount those in a helmet, it could do some good.

Eh, mounting to the helmet? I'm iffy. Most likely would require a different helmet. That would be REALLY expensive. Hence, Army won't do it.

You know what I've been doing for the last few weeks? Gutting NG armories, depots, etc for every piece of signal equipment possible. I have zero radios. They even swiped my off-the-books Vietnam era radios. They swiped my made in 1947 switchboard that I loved, survived every war after WWII. As a commo geek, what am I supposed to do to provide communications? Tin cans and string? We managed to get permission to buy some of those cheap two way radios from Wal-Mart. When we are buying our communication equipment from the bargain isle of Wal-Mart, there are major problems.

Err, sorry about the rant. Bottom line, no money to replace every helmet in the Army. Not possible. So you're very limited in space. You HAVE to be able to quickly and easily attach hearing protection under that helmet. I don't think there's space for a mounting system that's actually robust enough to survive combat. The mounting bracket for NVG's are on the outside of the helmet. Same thing wouldn't work for hearing. Needs to be airtight or close enough.

I'd say buying a regular small profile headset, similiar to the Swedes, with no mounting bracket. Most likely, bright soldiers will buy their own. I did. Wish they had been thoroughly tested by the Army, but none were that I know. The official options were hearing damage (no plugs) or near deaf (plugs).

Never thought about that aspect of doing so. Of course, my firing is not done in the middle of combat, so such a scenario would have never occured. The dizziness makes sense too.

However, I usually have a problem with the ear opposite the gun (since I hold the gun with the right hand, the left ear).

Depends on the rifle, and what kind of muzzle break you use. For me as a right handed M16A2 shooter, right ear seemed best to plug. For a different person, maybe left ear is best. Not sure.

 

[Byron]

I was a grunt with the 4Th Inf Div in Nam 68-69. You do not have time to put hearing plugs in when a firefight starts.You jeoporize your life and someone else's. I do have serious hearing loss and wear two hearing aids given by the VA.You have to be able to hear in combat. I knew of no man who had them.
Byron