OP
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akodo said:
No, at arm's length. I have fairly sensitive ears. And I suppose I was exaggerating. I wasn't DEAF, but everything else was pretty muted.
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No, at arm's length. I have fairly sensitive ears. And I suppose I was exaggerating. I wasn't DEAF, but everything else was pretty muted.
troedw
Member
Always Wear Ear Protection
I enlisted in the Marines, in 1962 and served three years. We were not given any form of hearing protection. My MOS was 2100, (infintry weapons repair)
and we were sometimes requied to go to the rifle range.
I lost a small part of my hearing at the age of 19, while still in the service. I bought my first hearing aid at approx. 25 years of age. By age 30, I had to wear aids in both ears and the hearing has continued to worsen, ever sense. I am now 63.5 years old and have a total lose of hearing in the right ear.(hearing aid will no longer help) and a 80% lose in the left.
ALWAYS, ALWAYS, WEAR EAR PROTECTION!!!!
I enlisted in the Marines, in 1962 and served three years. We were not given any form of hearing protection. My MOS was 2100, (infintry weapons repair)
and we were sometimes requied to go to the rifle range.
I lost a small part of my hearing at the age of 19, while still in the service. I bought my first hearing aid at approx. 25 years of age. By age 30, I had to wear aids in both ears and the hearing has continued to worsen, ever sense. I am now 63.5 years old and have a total lose of hearing in the right ear.(hearing aid will no longer help) and a 80% lose in the left.
ALWAYS, ALWAYS, WEAR EAR PROTECTION!!!!
They issue earplugs.
The problem is that even during peacetime there are some jobs that require you to be around loud noises but still be able to hear.
Like working around tracked vehicles or explosives for example, or any other situation where it would be advantageous to hear someone shouting "Oh ****, run for your lives!"
I heard some MG fire once without any earplugs in and it was physically painful. It took me 30 seconds to get the plugs in and it was a long time to go without hearing protection on an MG range. There was another time that I didn't have my earplugs in when someone set off several small charges of C-4, each one being about 8 pounds. Those were even louder than the MG range. That was also painful - I felt my eardrums and the bones in my head rattle. It was not fun.
I was also closer than I should have been to an artillery simulator when it went off. It was LOUD. My ears are still ringing from it.
Accidents happen.
BTW - adrenaline doesn't mitigate hearing damage.
Your body can filter out things like noise when you're very focused on something, like in hunting, but your ears are still working. The damage is still getting done.
The problem is that even during peacetime there are some jobs that require you to be around loud noises but still be able to hear.
Like working around tracked vehicles or explosives for example, or any other situation where it would be advantageous to hear someone shouting "Oh ****, run for your lives!"
I heard some MG fire once without any earplugs in and it was physically painful. It took me 30 seconds to get the plugs in and it was a long time to go without hearing protection on an MG range. There was another time that I didn't have my earplugs in when someone set off several small charges of C-4, each one being about 8 pounds. Those were even louder than the MG range. That was also painful - I felt my eardrums and the bones in my head rattle. It was not fun.
I was also closer than I should have been to an artillery simulator when it went off. It was LOUD. My ears are still ringing from it.
Accidents happen.
BTW - adrenaline doesn't mitigate hearing damage.
Your body can filter out things like noise when you're very focused on something, like in hunting, but your ears are still working. The damage is still getting done.
I can tell you first hand, right now, in the Marine Corps, it is a Requirement, for every single range where there are any sort of gunshots, explosions, etc. to wear ear protection. I can also tell you, that since I've been in the Marine Corps (4 years this November) I have been issued Ear Pro on 7 occassions. Four of those were at the Rifle qual range. Where the noises aren't that bad anyways. In country, I never saw ear pro. You don't wear them on Patrol, you don't wear them in a vehicle, and you damn sure don't have time to put them in during a firefight. After having done my 2nd annual physical(Been in four years remember) last month, i was diagnosed with severe Tinitis, or ringing in the ears. It can carry up to a 20% disability rating from the Veterans Affairs office, to give you an idea of the severity. It is a constant ringing. I can't hear things like watch alarms, kitchen timers, or any other high frequency sounds, unless they are VERY loud. When there is background noise, I can't understand a damn thing being said to me from more than 3 feet away. The audiologist told me that at this time, she isn't reccomending hearing aids, because I can still comprehend what people are saying. However, within 10 years, she says I will need them. It sucks. It's a serious problem, and one not likely to be addressed. Gunshots and explosions are only a small part of the noise we are subjected to. Vehicles, planes, etc. all add to the problem. But if someone tells you that it's a servicemembers fault for being deaf, because they were issued Ear Protection, and didn't use it, that's just not true.
Yep.
I also have tinnitus, also have problems hearing anything around background noise, and I have a "deaf spot" where if my head is turned a certain way I can't hear some sounds at all. It's strange.
They've told me I should probably get hearing aids but I keep ignoring them.
Funny how convenient my hearing loss can be at times...
Also, now that I ALWAYS wear ear protection when I shoot, it's strange how loud the occasional gun shot is without it. Even a .22 from a rifle seems really loud.
I also have tinnitus, also have problems hearing anything around background noise, and I have a "deaf spot" where if my head is turned a certain way I can't hear some sounds at all. It's strange.
They've told me I should probably get hearing aids but I keep ignoring them.
Funny how convenient my hearing loss can be at times...
Also, now that I ALWAYS wear ear protection when I shoot, it's strange how loud the occasional gun shot is without it. Even a .22 from a rifle seems really loud.
The Army has issued ear pro ever since I enlisted back in 88'.
Today ear pro consists of everything from the "softie" foam variety, to the rubber type christmas tree shaped, and up to peltor head sets depending on your unit.
The average soldier gets the rubber type, or the softies. The new "combat" ear plugs are effective, but uncomfortable.
In an urban environment, in vehicles, birds etc, I always wear ear pro as your vision is the primary sense you will use to locate the baddies, and without ear pro, you stand a good chance of being deaf after the explosion/MG's kick off anyway, so might as well have REDUCED hearing as opposed to NO hearing.
The ONLY time I wouldn't use ear pro is in an environment that relies heavily on your hearing to detect the baddies, IE, woods, jungle. MOST baddies don't have the best noise discipline in that type of environment and you can hear them before you see them, unless YOUR noise discipline sucks.
I have lost a little bit of hearing over the years, but it's pretty close to what the average person loses with age. The hardest duty on my hearing was when I was a weapons squad leader. Moving from gun to gun to gun to ID targets, direct fires, "fix" gunner brain housing errors and issue fire commands while those 240's are a rockin' and sustaining fires can sure rattle your brain housing. Add a 90 or goose team, or even a .50, and the symphony becomes quite impressive and can overcome your ear pro.
WHATEVER you do, DON'T sit next to the mini gun on the bird during a hot exfil...THAT evil thing made me feel the fillings in my TEETH rattle...
Today ear pro consists of everything from the "softie" foam variety, to the rubber type christmas tree shaped, and up to peltor head sets depending on your unit.
The average soldier gets the rubber type, or the softies. The new "combat" ear plugs are effective, but uncomfortable.
In an urban environment, in vehicles, birds etc, I always wear ear pro as your vision is the primary sense you will use to locate the baddies, and without ear pro, you stand a good chance of being deaf after the explosion/MG's kick off anyway, so might as well have REDUCED hearing as opposed to NO hearing.
The ONLY time I wouldn't use ear pro is in an environment that relies heavily on your hearing to detect the baddies, IE, woods, jungle. MOST baddies don't have the best noise discipline in that type of environment and you can hear them before you see them, unless YOUR noise discipline sucks.
I have lost a little bit of hearing over the years, but it's pretty close to what the average person loses with age. The hardest duty on my hearing was when I was a weapons squad leader. Moving from gun to gun to gun to ID targets, direct fires, "fix" gunner brain housing errors and issue fire commands while those 240's are a rockin' and sustaining fires can sure rattle your brain housing. Add a 90 or goose team, or even a .50, and the symphony becomes quite impressive and can overcome your ear pro.
WHATEVER you do, DON'T sit next to the mini gun on the bird during a hot exfil...THAT evil thing made me feel the fillings in my TEETH rattle...
Yankee
Member
When I was in the Army in the early 1990's there were always open boxes of the basic yellow foam earplugs at every range I ever visited. They were also passed out anytime we were expecting explosions or other significant noise such as around flightlines. During one live fire exercise I was struggling to hear orders being passed to me by other members of the team. I foolishly flicked the plug out of my left ear and I spent the rest of the day and night in serious pain whith voices and sounds being very metallic and scratchy. To this day my hearing in the left ear is not as good as the right ear.
Many of them do lose some of their hearing, develop tinitus (ringing in the ears) and vertigo from inner ear damage to the nerves. I for one am one of them. I was in the infantry in Vietnam, M-60 machine gun. The only guys that I knew who wore ear protection were the red legs (artillary guys).
MMCSRET
Member
In the USN,(I retired from it over 20 years ago) on surface ships we were all issued a personal pair of mouse ears and had foam plugs available. I was not paying attention once in 1965 off the coast of RVN and Mount 51 was firing night illumination and I went up to the mess deck for midrats at 2330 hrs. and walked out on the weather deck just aft of the break just as that 5-38 fired about 20 feet from me. My ears rang so long I forgot about it and never remember it going away, but it did.
Piraticalbob
Member
The Navy Times has an article on this very subject.
I notice that the cost of hearing protection will be going from .16 cents to $200. Typical of DoD.
I notice that the cost of hearing protection will be going from .16 cents to $200. Typical of DoD.
I spent two years in required army ROTC back in 63-65,and was on small bore rifle team. We shot on an indoor range under the stadium, no ear protection.
Lated in UASF basic, M-16 qualification, OTS with 38 special, no ear protection. Fast forward 20 years M-92 9mm qualification, plenty of ear protection, but harm had already been done.
Got a small VA disability out of all that.
Lated in UASF basic, M-16 qualification, OTS with 38 special, no ear protection. Fast forward 20 years M-92 9mm qualification, plenty of ear protection, but harm had already been done.
Got a small VA disability out of all that.
Bentonville
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jnyork, +1000
Solo Flyer
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Thank you for pointing this out,jkingprh and tpaw.
I spent 5 years in the U.S.Army in the late '60's as a Medic.No hearing protection on range coverage with .45's and M-16''s blasting.
No ear protection at Fort Stewart,Ga with M-60 shells and 50 caliber MG's for 10 week's of manuever's.
No protection at anytime,anyplace,anywhere.
Today I'm 50% deaf in the left ear and 70% in the right ear.
Result:No VA bennies,but Social Security recently awarded me 100% disability.
I'll trade back my hearing for the money anyday.
But some of my 'Nam and D.R. buddies are no longer with us, so I consider myself very fortunate.
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
In Training-
ARMY basic type at Fort Benning, GA in November of '65; we NEVER heard
of any type of hearing protection; on the range, or while crawling thru the
thunderous infiltration course (Laughing Loudly )~!
ARMY basic type at Fort Benning, GA in November of '65; we NEVER heard
of any type of hearing protection; on the range, or while crawling thru the
thunderous infiltration course (Laughing Loudly
)~!
Hey Jagugator....
What platform?
I spent 22 years in Naval Aviation, my time being split between shore based squadrons and being stationed on big flat grey things.
When I retired, they said my hearing was better than when I joined the Navy in '73
riiiight!
What platform?
I spent 22 years in Naval Aviation, my time being split between shore based squadrons and being stationed on big flat grey things.
When I retired, they said my hearing was better than when I joined the Navy in '73
riiiight!
I agree. Just because your brain is too busy doing other things to pay attention to what's coming into your ears doesn't mean the loud noise, concussion, shock waves aren't damaging your delicate hearing equipment.
What I mean is, you might not "hear" the shots, but your ears are still being damaged by the noise.
That said, it's hard to argue with someone that's been there...
This is from:
http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/14151.html
Which was also linked from our own thread here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=383368
You are correct, you brain filters out the perceived noise, but it's still there and still damaging your hearing. I get a 20% disability for hearing loss from the VA.
Loud noise does damage your hearing and it is cumulative.
Jeff
Incorrect and irresponsible to promulgate this stupid myth.
Auditory exclusion does nothing to filter out hearing damage. This is a physio/psychological effect. The adrenaline causes dilation of blood vessels. This changes the way we perceive sound, but it doesn't do anything to the power of the sound itself. The brain also "ignores" that which is not immediately involved in it's survival so it excludes sounds. Again, nothing about the damaging effect of sustained loud noises changes. The damage is mechanical and related to the pounding the cilia of the inner ear are taking. Pound them hard enough and long enough and they are permanently damaged.
How do military personnel (and now civilian contractors) not go deaf due to weapons fire? They don't "not go deaf". They loose their hearing. That's why the military spends millions on research to prevent hearing loss and why they pay millions each year in hearing disability payments.
Guess what the most common and therefore mostly costly military disability is? Hearing loss.
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csmkersh
Member
The Army's use of earing protection is fairly new. Yes, members of pistol teams routinely used ear plugs, but the first time I was handed a pair was as a Huey passenger stateside. Later, we were issued ear plugs and a plastic container for them. Still keep 'em fastened to the lapel of my brush jackets.
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"In an urban environment, in vehicles, birds etc, I always wear ear pro as your vision is the primary sense you will use to locate the baddies, and without ear pro, you stand a good chance of being deaf after the explosion/MG's kick off anyway, so might as well have REDUCED hearing as opposed to NO hearing."
In Vehicles, and Birds, Most definately, you can wear ear pro, because you're not going to be hearing the enemy anyways. However, as soon as you get out, (right before, even) They need to come out. As far as an Urban environment, that is simply not true. 1) Night operations, we rely HEAVILY on stealth. NVG's are good, but not good enough to see someone who is laying on the ground, or behind a building, car, dumpster, etc. more then about 50 ft away.
2)Daytime missions, inside a house, it is MUCH more effective to listen for an enemy who may be moving around the house than to stick your head into a room and look for him. If you can see him, he can shoot you. If you hear him first, you can order him out, or if your ROE's allow it, you can frag or flashbang the room. Something you won't do if you don't have reasonable suspicion someone is in there. It's just a waste.
3) Try being a point man on a regular patrol, ANYWHERE, with ear plugs in. Can't hear someone telling you, "Hey, halt it up." That's not so bad, cuz you look back every now and then. Try being rear security after you're halted though. You don't look at the rest of the squad regardless. Your job is rear security. Second to last guy tells you when you're moving. Don't hear him? Get left behind.
I agree. I would rather have Less Hearing than no hearing, but I would much rather be deaf then be dead. Can't hear anything then, either.
In Vehicles, and Birds, Most definately, you can wear ear pro, because you're not going to be hearing the enemy anyways. However, as soon as you get out, (right before, even) They need to come out. As far as an Urban environment, that is simply not true. 1) Night operations, we rely HEAVILY on stealth. NVG's are good, but not good enough to see someone who is laying on the ground, or behind a building, car, dumpster, etc. more then about 50 ft away.
2)Daytime missions, inside a house, it is MUCH more effective to listen for an enemy who may be moving around the house than to stick your head into a room and look for him. If you can see him, he can shoot you. If you hear him first, you can order him out, or if your ROE's allow it, you can frag or flashbang the room. Something you won't do if you don't have reasonable suspicion someone is in there. It's just a waste.
3) Try being a point man on a regular patrol, ANYWHERE, with ear plugs in. Can't hear someone telling you, "Hey, halt it up." That's not so bad, cuz you look back every now and then. Try being rear security after you're halted though. You don't look at the rest of the squad regardless. Your job is rear security. Second to last guy tells you when you're moving. Don't hear him? Get left behind.
I agree. I would rather have Less Hearing than no hearing, but I would much rather be deaf then be dead. Can't hear anything then, either.
Elm Creek Smith
Member
Twenty years twenty-two days in the Army, most of it on tanks. Always earplugs on the range or working in the motor pool. On ranges where we were firing main guns (90mm, 105mm, 120mm) wore earplugs under the CVC with the cups cinched tight. Always wore 'em on the mortar range (4.2 in) too. I didn't get disability from hearing loss, but my ears still ring (something about nothing stopping damage from tank guns), and I have trouble understanding people facing away from me or when there is background noise.
Raise money and send some electronic, in-ear protection and batteries to the guys still serving overseas.
ECS
Raise money and send some electronic, in-ear protection and batteries to the guys still serving overseas.
ECS
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