Heavy Trigger Pull For Law Enforcement?

[CmdrSlander]

I read recently about the state of Massachusetts requiring upwards of 20 lbs of trigger pull for its LEO's sidearms. Supposedly this is to reduce accidental discharges, the state of New York (maybe it was the NYPD?) have a similar requirement: 10 lbs or more. They, however, cite a different reason: "To make the officer consider the enormous gravity and consequences of what they are about to do when they pull the trigger." In both cases, I think this is absurd, Its common knowledge that crisp, lighter triggers reduce flinching and improve accuracy, and I want focused, accurate shooters, defending my state/town/etc., not people equipped with weapons who's trigger pull's are so long and heavy that they have time to "consider the consequences and gravity of the situation." I'm not in Law Enforcement, but in my opinion (backed by the rules of gun safety) if you are pointing a loaded weapon, not to mention about to pull the trigger the "consequences" should already have been considered.

(Edit: Also, how long has the M1911 been carried by Military and Law Enforcement, even non-custom models have a fairly light and crisp trigger and I doubt the accidental discharge rate was very high, if it was we would have seen CNBC's "Colt Under Fire" "Kimber Under Fire" "Springfield Armory Under fire" etc. by now .)
What do you think?

 

[Birdmang]

Isnt there a NY trigger spring optional on glocks, near 11 lbs?

 

[CmdrSlander]

@Birdmang

I wouldn't know...

 

[mgmorden]

I think its a bad move personally. Trigger discipline is whats important when it comes to ND's - not trigger weight. Where trigger weight DOES come into play is accuracy. Heavy triggers are far more difficult to shoot accurately, and even those who DO shoot them accurately tend to have to slow down their fire much more than they could do with a lighter trigger. These difficulties are only magnified when in a stressful situation.

IMHO, there is no valid safety reason why any gun should have a trigger artificially weighted at more than 6 lbs. Lighter than that is fine if you have good trigger discipline, and heavier than that can be accepted if its a technical reason why such a pull is required, but to intentionally bump it higher and cite safety as the reason is just not a valid argument to me.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

I think fewer & fewer LE recruits have ever fired (even picked up?) a firearm before their admittance into the academy. Yes, I agree that a 10-20 lb. trigger pull is absurd. Yet when you're asking HS grads to learn ALL the skills necessary to be an effective LEO, including the safe use of a handgun, in a matter of weeks...the nanny-goat approach is to make to discharge of that firearm as "difficult" as possible. To me, it translates like this - The State of Massachusetts would officially like to announce that we would much rather get an LEO killed than to incur the expense of litigation and chance of financial liability resulting from the discharge of a firearm in the justified performance of that LEO's duty. We've done a study & it's just cheaper this way.

 

[biggameballs]

I personally like a somewhat heavy trigger pull on a gun as long as it has a real nice clean consistant break. I feel a slightly heavier trigger allows me to keep a firmer grip and be steadier when shooting the gun. I tend to get sloppy when I have a long whimpy trigger like a some of the older glocks I've shot.

That said 20 lbs seems crazy.

 

[G.barnes]

These are also the same idiots up in that area who tell the police what they are and are not allowed to carry.

 

[Nushif]

The State of Massachusetts would officially like to announce that we would much rather get an LEO killed than to incur the expense of litigation and chance of financial liability resulting from the discharge of a firearm in the justified performance of that LEO's duty. We've done a study & it's just cheaper this way.

There is probably more truth to this than we can imagine.

 

[jmr40]

For decades DA revolvers have had 10-12 lb. DA trigger pulls and police officers have learned to shoot them well. A comparble trigger on a DOA semi is perfectly acceptable for me as long as it as a crisp, smooth feel to it.

Most standard Glocks are 5-6 lbs with an 8 lb. pull optional. The New York trigger is around 10-12, about the same as has always been pretty much standard. A 20 lb. pull, never heard of any such thing, but guess it is possible.

 

[Nordeste]

I just can't understand why you want to make it even more difficult for cop, to hit his target when he's under stress. It just doesn't make sense. A stock trigger in most pistols is between 2 and 3 kg, and that's just enough in my experience. Less would be a "match" trigger, which wouldn't be a good idea, either, but more, it's just pointless.

 

[sigbear]

Just Moved From The Liberal Republic Of Ass.

Having lived in Mass all my life and just moved to a Southern Freedom state I can tell you that I have fired many, many Glocks, M&P's etc. with the Mass. Attorney Generals mandatory 10lb trigger and the 10 lb trigger (IMO) ruins the gun, can't even imagine a 20 lb. trigger. I wouldn't even consider buying a DAO firearm with a 10 lb. trigger when I lived there, Ah, but now since moving to a free state, I now have a Glock 21SF with a 6 lb. trigger, how sweet. The last thing the police need is yet another handicap like a 20 lb. trigger.

Sigbear

 

[breacher]

per SOP my dept. mandates a minimum of a 3.5 lb. trigger if carrying a personally owned pistol. dept. issues a stock Glock 22 if you want that.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Twenty pounds is absurd. Where did you read this?

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

They should have heavier than 5 lbs. for sure. Stress and other factors for safety of all.

 

[David E]

Seems to me the officer will have plenty of time to consider the consequences while he keeps missing the badguy who us actively trying to kill him. In fact, the officer will have the rest of his life to reflect on those consequences.....

 

[2wheels]

10 pounds isn't a big deal depending on the trigger, but 20? I've never heard of that, that's excessive IMHO.

 

[mljdeckard]

Trigger weight doesn't figure into the four rules. They are pretending that a heavier trigger spring is a substitute for proper training.

 

[Drail]

If they are not going to make significant improvements to their training system then they most definitely don't need a light trigger. All of the accidents you read about involving police is due to one thing - inadequate training and discipline. Installing a heavier trigger spring is far cheaper than supplying ammo and range time and instruction. And it's been this way for many years. Why do you suppose we never heard about NDs back in the days when LEO all carried DA S&W revolvers? You have to really want a revolver to fire in DA. And that's how they were trained to use them.

 

[papa_bear]

I'm guessing the majority of you have never had an overzealous rookie point his weapon at you with his finger on the trigger. Before the flaming starts, I was walking to the gas station One night about 9 o' clock, and was ambushed by local Leo. Held at gun point face down in the road. I wad told afterwards there was a suspicious person report near by. This was not the first time an officer used "felony stop" procedure on me negligently. I understand and appreciate the dangers involved but some deputies might not be cut out for the job. I have no problems having a heavy dao trigger mandatory for le work. I would rather them practice accuracy over trigger control when I'm on the other end of the barrel.

 

[VA27]

Several years ago I attended a training session put on by 2 former MSP Troopers. The first course we fired was the MSP qualifier. Max range was 15 yards!?

The class of 20 was composed of firearms instructors from as many different agencies.

We shot their courses and then finished up with a 60rd PPC. No one scored under a 90%. The class ended when the 2 guys walked the line looking at targets. They looked at each other and then at the assembled shooters and one of them said, "We have nothing to teach you."

While I have my doubts that the 20lb story is true, it wouldn't surprise me if it were.

 

[razorback2003]

My J frame snub revolver probably has at least a 10 lb trigger. It has had a trigger job done by S&W, so it is smooth. The K and L frame Smiths have heavy double action triggers but are honestly easier to pull than my J frame.

If the trigger is smooth and 10 pounds it isn't bad. If the trigger is not smooth it makes shooting hard. I doubt the triggers on these LEO guns are 20 pounds. 10 is probably more like it to be like a revolver.

 

[jackpinesavages]

Mass. is a bizzare state.

If 20lbs. is what is mandated, it is also what they will train with. Hopefully, a lot.

 

[Bobson]

I don't think any member of this forum would vote to mandate a certain weight trigger pull for all civilians, so why the heck would you vote to enforce that same thing for LEOs? It makes absolutely no sense.

Frankly, using personal experience to justify this is flat-out stupidity, unless that experience is experience as an LEO. A bad experience with someone who shouldn't have been an LEO in the first place is a lame reason to support limiting an LEO's ability to do his job. It is a reason to support higher standards as far as hiring is concerned.

 

[The-Reaver]

I voted yes, Because every cop in my city has some form of Glock
And I don't like knowing that these.......

That they don't have safeties. At least make the triggers a tad bit heavy so when they blast the wrong person, they know that they meant to pull the trigger.

 

[mljdeckard]

Reaver, why are they putting their finger on the trigger at all if it isn't who they wanted to shoot?