Heller denied again in DC - Duplicate threads merged

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I'm just waiting to see who to send my donation to..... got the beer, chips and pizza hut on speed dial.... This is gonna be good :cool:

This just makes me want to go out and buy a 1911 on principle.
 
The issue now is that Heller tried to register a revolver.
He was denied.
The SCOTUS has ordered that his gun be registered.
He shows up to register the gun.

In the mean time DC has changed the rules.
They now require that every gun be fired to capture a 'ballistic fingerprint' and be checked to make sure it is not stolen or has been used in a crime..

DC tells Heller he must bring the revolver to be fired and checked to register it.

DC has changed the rules and is now trying to enforce NEW rules in the face of a SCOTUS ruling.
They also refused to allow him to register a semi auto.

This is NOT going to go well for DC.
The Federal judiciary does not take this kind of game playing very well.
 
This case won't go back to SCOTUS, it will be handled by the lower courts using the Heller ruling. It may not even get to the Appellate court unless DC appeals and wants to get slapped twice.
 
Does anyone see this eventually evolving into a Brown v. Board of Education type remedy, where federal courts take over the gun registration system themselves to "integrate" guns into society.
 
While I would like to believe that the Supreme Court or a lower federal court having jurisidiction over the District would hold the Mayor and Police Commissioner in contempt for playing these games it won't happen. And more to the point everyone here knows it isn't going to happen. This kind of nonsense has been going on for decades across the country particularly in New York, California, Massachussetts, Washington D.C., Illinois and New Jersey. The Mayor is not going to be led out in handcuffs, the Police Commissioner is not going to be led out in handcuffs and no Police Officer who took part in actually violating the Supreme Court's order, either now or at some future date, is going to be led out in handcuffs.

Here is what will happen: every time a federal court tells D.C. that it has to do something the city government will move precisely one inch in that direction and then come to a dead stop. After stopping, city officials will then look for ways to make the process even more difficult, frustrating and unappealing so that no one wants to apply to possess a pistol or revolver and so that the vast majority of people who do actually apply are rejected or turned away. What D.C. will do, in all likelihood, is follow the New York City playbook and require very high fees to obtain the license, reject your application for minor paperwork errors, make the application process adversarial and finally require that you show up to the designated police location multiple times on short notice so that you have to choose between possessing a pistol or revolver and keeping your job.

The District knows that this machine gun nonsense will be thrown out at some point. Some point could be next month or two years from now and I personally think it will be the latter. Once that restriction is demolished, however, and you can own a semi-automatic pistol the District will think of three more things to harrass you with like requiring that you bring your weapon to Police Headquarters once a month to be inspected so as to prove that you didn't sell it illegally or have it stolen and not report it. After all, such a requirement isn't an absolute ban on handguns. The report date and time will be a work day during your shift so once again you'll have to choose between having a GP 100 in your nightstand and having food in your refridgerator.

All of this is an object lesson in why permits, licenses, registration lists and all the other nonsense put forward by gun control advocates and so-called moderate supporters of the Second Amendment are garbage. As long as you are required to ask permission to purchase, possess or utilize arms this will be the result whenever city officials choose to make it so. Even if the Supreme Court itself were to issue a written order signed by all 9 Justices compelling immediate registration of semi-automatic pistols on pain of immediate execution should the Mayor not comply (a complete fantasy, just used for the sake of illustration), the D.C. government would be back next week with something else to impede ownership of weapons. This is why registration and licensing must never, ever, under any circumstances be allowed or agreed to.

I lived in New York City for 20 years, believe me when I tell you this, you have not even begun to see the District of Columbia obfuscate. Things will get even worse and the courts will do nothing about it. D.C. still has a thousand and one ways of stalling, delaying and stonewalling. God help the people of the federal district.
 
For those of you who wish to donate money to buy Heller a 1911 take a look at the thread on Arfcom that is doing exactly that.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=75&t=725049

As was just pointed out to me this is in the Team forum and only team members can see this. I'm working on another method if anyone would like to contribute. One of the bad things of pay to play boards.
 
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Does anyone see this eventually evolving into a Brown v. Board of Education type remedy, where federal courts take over the gun registration system themselves to "integrate" guns into society.

Uh, no.

They'll just take up the issue of licensing, which they sidestepped in Heller, and rule that you can't require a license to exercise a constitutional right. End of discussion.
 
For those of you who wish to donate money to buy Heller a 1911 take a look at the thread on Arfcom that is doing exactly that.

DO NOT DO THAT. Collect money to pay Gura! He's not getting paid for this and we don't want him doing what Miller's attoney did.


-T.
 
So, supposing this DOES make it the SCOTUS, what will they call it?

Heller vs. DC, Part Deux ?
 
Thernlund said:
DO NOT DO THAT. Collect money to pay Gura! He's not getting paid for this and we don't want him doing what Miller's attoney did.

While I understand the sentiment, there's two points to be made:

First, $500-1000 for a new pistol for Mr. Heller would be a very appropriate show of appreciation and more than a token as by pure appearances (which I realize can be way off) he doesn't have the personal wealth to go get one himself on a whim. On the other hand, Mr. Gura as a law firm partner and with enough celebrity as a good lawyer probably has a lot less use for $1000, donated in appreciation or not.

Second, it's unlikely in the extreme that Gura (who signed on voluntarily to this case from the beginning out of a sense of principles) would do what Miller's attorney (a public defender appointed by the court, IIRC) did, and indeed to suggest that he'd drop the case for lack of payment or appreciation at this point could easily be construed as insulting.
 
Thernlund said:
DO NOT DO THAT. Collect money to pay Gura! He's not getting paid for this and we don't want him doing what Miller's attoney did.

Levy and Gura are not in this to get paid. Levy has stated he will not accept money. Neither will Gura. This isn't depression era lawyering.
 
yesit'sloaded wrote:

"A 1911 practically defines "in common use". Not to mention the design is antique."

True and true.

Not just antique, but one connected deeply to the conduct of WWI and WWII, and (OK, this is stretching it, but I think not really) religious freedom in the U.S. through its origin as a design of JMB. There are plenty of guns with the claim to being "the quintissential American gun" but the 1911 has at least as strong a claim as most!

For D.C. -- head spinning at the insanity required here -- to deny Heller registration of his 1911 (!!!) right after he won one of the most-watched Supreme Court cases in years (!!!!!!) defies even my very low expectations of post-Heller (the case) D.C.

timothy
 
So if all bottom loading guns are machine guns, is Mr. Heller now going to get a Sten.

And under that classification, any gun short of a single shot, or a revolver, would be one as well. While the previously mentioned Sten, the Bren, the Jap. Type 99, the M60 (and most other belt feeds), and many other full-autos, would not be included.

Now that I think about it, not a bad trade-off, give me an M2 .50 cal for my home defense. Thank you Washington, D.C.:D:D:D
 
I would prefer an M60 over the M2 myself.:) Since it isn't a bottom loader it is OK.:rolleyes:

I agree with some others. DC will drag this out. The good thing for them to do it vote those Jacka$$s out of office.
 
This is politicians at work. Is it the future of America? Probably.

The machinegun ban is unconstitutional to begin with, so why are they whining about bottom feeders? Do they want to steer him from 9mm towards .454 Casull? WOuld that make the antis happier?

I'm very frustrated with the anti-American attitude antis show. I've said it before: Bag them and send them to North Korea. I've had enough...
 
included in the law is the typical definition of a machine gun as well, part A specifies more than one round per trigger pull, part B specifies anything that can be modified to hold 12 or more rounds, does not specify bottom loading.

personally, I would take a revolver and somehow customize it to hold 12 rounds, and thus show that any gun CAN be modified and thus no guns are allowed under their laws, and thus they are yet again under violation of the SCOTUS ruling
 
Isn't there a semiauto revolver out there. (No I am not making that up, I know it exists) What is its capacity?
 
The District knows that this machine gun nonsense will be thrown out at some point. Some point could be next month or two years from now and I personally think it will be the latter. Once that restriction is demolished, however, and you can own a semi-automatic pistol the District will think of three more things to harrass you with like requiring that you bring your weapon to Police Headquarters once a month to be inspected so as to prove that you didn't sell it illegally or have it stolen and not report it. After all, such a requirement isn't an absolute ban on handguns. The report date and time will be a work day during your shift so once again you'll have to choose between having a GP 100 in your nightstand and having food in your refridgerator.

This is actually good for us though; because hassling a security guard who is licensed to carry a weapon every day; thus making it impossible for him to have one in his own home is really, really difficult to defend on a purely factual basis.

So we not only have the excellent legal precedent set by Heller on our side, we have good facts as well - and every time we make D.C. eat their recalcitrance we gain more good precedence and another restriction struck down. The more unreasonable they try to be, the better it will work out for us.

For years we have all cringed as some of our fellow gunowners went to court with no lawyers and less legal strategy. They were well-intentioned; but frequently ended up establishing precedent that hurt us. Now we finally get to watch the antis do the same thing to their own cause - torpedo it better than we could by going as extreme as possible in response to Heller.
 
personally, I would take a revolver and somehow customize it to hold 12 rounds
They have revolvers with over 20+ shots out there.

But you said a 12 shot, so here is a 12 shot revolver:
58290.gif


58290d.gif

Walch .36caliber Navy
 
Isn't there a semiauto revolver out there. (No I am not making that up, I know it exists) What is its capacity?

Mateba Autorevolver, there are several models. I've never seen one, I don't know how many are in the US. I think they only hold 6 rounds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mateba_Autorevolver

I'm afraid Blackbeard is right as to DC's strategy. We need to make sure it doesn't go that way.

Oh, and I think Oleg has a photo of some 19th Century revolver with 20 shot capacity - looks like it has two different barrels, and a cylinder that has chambers lining up with each barrel.
 
Yep here is a link to THR thread with a 20 shot revolver:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=137508

attachment.php


A machinegun under DC law.

Here is one of a 24 shot revolver:
24shotrevolver3.jpg

Another DC machinegun.
 
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