Heller denied again in DC - Duplicate threads merged

[Vegaslaith]

So if all bottom loading guns are machine guns, is Mr. Heller now going to get a Sten.

And under that classification, any gun short of a single shot, or a revolver, would be one as well.

[cough]Hughes[cough]

 

[Autolycus]

I believe that D.C. issues the Glock 17 to their officers. I have to ask why they are issuing machineguns to hteir police officers?

We should turn around and use their definitions against them.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

So if all bottom loading guns are machine guns, is Mr. Heller now going to get a Sten.

Or (from "Lock stock and 2 smoking barrels")
"What the &$*@ is that?"
"It's me Bren gun"

 

[TwitchALot]

I hope Mr. Heller treats that .45 as a precious family heirloom after the dust settles on this, because it's likely going to be the symbol of the reclaiming of the right to keep and bear arms in America.

Edit: though it was most folks' understanding here that he had tried to and was turned down registering his "duty revolver", a .38special or something like that. I guess we were wrong, or that .38 has been quietly pushed aside.

Wouldn't that be appropriate? As if the 1911 needed any more history and purpose behind it.

 

[txgp17]

DO NOT DO THAT. Collect money to pay Gura! He's not getting paid for this and we don't want him doing what Miller's attoney did.

Too late. We've already collected almost $1,600 with more donations in the mail, and we have a custom 1911-smith on board to build the guns. Plus I've spoken with Dick Heller on the phone twice in the last two weeks about it. He's pumped up and wants this gun to be in a museum 100 years from now.

I'd also like to share a few other snippets he told me. First, a quote that he penned following the ruling:
In a truly free Country, Citizens do not need permission to keep and bear arms.
-Dick Heller, 2008

Also, we wanted to get Gura one too. Heller said that Gura had already declined such an offer because he didn't want one. On Tuesday night Heller gave a speech to a group of young Republican & Libertarians. He said he apologized to them for allowing laws like DC's to take place, because when it was instituted, he was chasing fast women and driving faster cars. He said that young people today should ask their parents how they allowed our Freedom to erode to the present status, and vow to not let it happen again.

We plan on buying 3 guns, one for Heller, a second for one of his attorneys, and a third to be raffled off to between all the donors.

 

[CypherNinja]

The funny thing is, S&W makes 8-shot .357 magnums. I want to see someone bring one of those in to register and watch a DC official's head explode out of confusion.

Pffft. It'd be even funnier with an antique 20-shot break top.


EDIT: WHOOPS, missed Zoogster's post. That is what I get for not reading the whole thread first.

 

[RDak]

Quote:
The District knows that this machine gun nonsense will be thrown out at some point. Some point could be next month or two years from now and I personally think it will be the latter. Once that restriction is demolished, however, and you can own a semi-automatic pistol the District will think of three more things to harrass you with like requiring that you bring your weapon to Police Headquarters once a month to be inspected so as to prove that you didn't sell it illegally or have it stolen and not report it. After all, such a requirement isn't an absolute ban on handguns. The report date and time will be a work day during your shift so once again you'll have to choose between having a GP 100 in your nightstand and having food in your refridgerator.

Next Quote:
This is actually good for us though; because hassling a security guard who is licensed to carry a weapon every day; thus making it impossible for him to have one in his own home is really, really difficult to defend on a purely factual basis.

So we not only have the excellent legal precedent set by Heller on our side, we have good facts as well - and every time we make D.C. eat their recalcitrance we gain more good precedence and another restriction struck down. The more unreasonable they try to be, the better it will work out for us.

For years we have all cringed as some of our fellow gunowners went to court with no lawyers and less legal strategy. They were well-intentioned; but frequently ended up establishing precedent that hurt us. Now we finally get to watch the antis do the same thing to their own cause - torpedo it better than we could by going as extreme as possible in response to Heller.

+1 billion!

I know it is a hassle to see delays denying law abiding citizens the the right to keep and bear arms, but I can't get this extremely big grin off of my face when I realize how desperate the anti-gunners are and will get.

DC has enacted some regulations that clearly fly in the face of Heller, supra. DC and other anti-gun regions will lose in the long run and they'll lose big IMHO.

Am I positive? No, but Heller gave us a fundamental individual right to keep and bear arms for self-defense purposes and this right has nothing to do with a militia.

We are in the driver's seat now. Finally!! Man, everytime I think of the holding in Heller,supra, I have to pinch myself.

 

[Ianp240]

I strongly believe that the actions of Heller and his lawyer (Present) are pre determined and designed to further the case and the 2A Rights.

Look at the case so far, he has prevailed in the SCOTUS and they (DC) have been instructed by that court to allow him to register his weapon, no reference made to the type of weapon in the ruling. So he turns up at the very first occasion at the time of opening to register a semi auto 1911, a weapon that cannot be denied as being in common use by the military or by the people, a weapon that has been in production for nearly 100 years and has been used in two world wars. What a great choice for a weapon to register. However DC has chosen to not allow this type of weapon to be unsuitable for registration in the district. DC also defines a 1911 as a machine gun, Federal Law already defines a machine Gun and a 1911 is not so defined by BAFTE. Perfect for a challenge to their regulations.

Now this was in my opinion chosen to highlight DC’s blatant use of regulations and registration to control handguns in direct contradiction to the SCOTUS ruling. It highlights DC’s continued pursuit of a ban on handguns, use of regulations and registration to further that ban in contradiction to their (SCOTUS) ruling and a direct infringement of his 2A Rights.

I believe that this is part of a strategy to show that regulations and registration are a means of gun control and are pursuant of a policy to ban handguns from use by the people, thus opening up a challenge in court that could quite possibly strike down any form of registration or regulation in the district and thus within the US. SCOTUS originally stated that a form of registration was acceptable to the plaintiff Heller and that his weapon should be registered by DC. They have not complied with that ruling and have failed to allow Heller to register his 1911, thus a challenge to their actions and any future registration of Heller’s weapon may prove to be a plausible case and
the court may strike down any registration due to the actions of DC.

Furthermore as there are no FFL’s in the DC area no one can purchase a handgun in the area nor can they purchase in a coterminous state and ship it into DC. It may also provide a challenge to Federal Laws that prevent a resident of one state from purchasing a handgun in another state and bring it into their home state unless they transfer the handgun into their home state via a FFL. As none exists in DC at present to facilitate that type of sale then no one in DC can avail themselves of their 2A rights.

Taken together the case may provide a definition of “shall not be infringed” We can only hope.

 

[Coronach]

They're trying to stall until Obama wins and packs the court with antis, to overturn Heller.

Blackbeard, you may be more right than you know.

If so, they're even bigger idiots than we have given them credit for thus far. A quick perusal of the vital statistics of the Supreme Court indicates that its most liberal members are due to time out first. While anything can happen, it is most likely that Stevens will retire first, and this means that he will be replaced by someone who is, at worst, as loony-left as he is. It's a wash.

My only fear is that Scalia will have a stroke listening to Stevens try to explain his tortured logic on some future case, and we'll have ourselves a tragedy. I mean, did you read the dissent in Heller? Scalia must have been on the border of an aneurysm the whole time.

Mike

 

[Nobody's_Hero]

Not surprised.

 

[txgho1911]

dcguncase.com has been updated. Clearing the Air

 

[ChrisVV]

When I see this guy going through this I ask myself what have I done lately that could even compaire to this. I can with all honesty say that I have done nothing.

 

[farscott]

While I am not surprised by what DC is doing, I am disappointed. Just so wrong on so many levels.

 

[everallm]

Every time I read the latest legal dodging from DC and the printed diatribes from Daley I take a deep breath and say thank you then repeat to myself the mantra of "more case law GOOD"......

Surely by now Brady et-al have gone to these small minded useful idiots and told them just how well they are working for us.......

 

[usmarine0352_2005]

When I see this guy going through this I ask myself what have I done lately that could even compaire to this. I can with all honesty say that I have done nothing.

Speak for yourself. I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.

 

[Mike128]

I initially love the fact that DC is fighting so hard with more insane gun laws. They are making themselves look like petty children and show that they really don't want "reasonable" gun laws but a complete gun ban leaving honest citizens defenseless.

And then I remember the 5-4 ruling and some negotiating that must have been needed to get it. What that tells me is some of these insane gun laws are not really that insane to the judges. Unfortunatley it's their opinions that matter.

 

[ctdonath]

M1911Owner brings up a notable point: the "amnesty" is for items which are already contraband. Mr. Heller's are not illegal as they are stored out-of-jurisdiction, but would become illegal if he brought them in. Now while DC may temporarily forgive such transgressions, the fact that he must violate the law to obey it is downright perverse.

Collect money to pay Gura!

Gura doesn't want money. The Heller team is well-funded privately.
A relatively cheap token ($1K for a M1911) may be appreciated; litigation donations are not.

the city government will move precisely one inch in that direction and then come to a dead stop.

Methinks they won't be doing that long under a Supreme Court decision. Either DC Circuit or SCOTUS will unleash fury (they WON'T be so ignored), or the purpose of the 2nd Amendment will become apparent.

 

[mnw42]

If someone walked in with a LeMat the MPD would probably have a stroke. Especially since calibers smaller than the normal .42 hold more than nine plus the shotgun.

 

[ilbob]

We've already collected almost $1,600 with more donations in the mail, and we have a custom 1911-smith on board to build the guns.

Just out of curiousity how do you plan to transfer it to him? Is there an FFL in DC willing to do so?

 

[MaterDei]

It'll be interesting to see where this goes.

 

[K-Romulus]

I saw a report on some news website (WashPost?) that the NRA is planning to sue DC over some of these BS regs.

I called the NRA-ILA yesterday, and they confirmed that they are bankrolling the NRA's post-Heller litigation, but I didn't ask about specifics of any particular cases or future cases since they probably wouldn't tell me over the phone.

Donations to NRA-ILA will go to the litigation fund. Donations may be made here: https://secure.nraila.org/Contribute.aspx

 

[XD_fan]

DC's "new" system smells like a poll tax. I understand why you need to take a test and have proof of adequate vision to drive a car. Its a privilege and a heavily taxed one at that. Understandable and legal since their is no right to have a drivers license.

While there are restrictions on freedom of speech and the press; they are reasonable in that those restrictions address a wrong that can be committed with unfettered speech or press. Yelling fire in a theater, printing or speaking lies publicly to the harm of another, etc. Oddly enough there are no further requirements on exercising this right. Blind people read and write, there is no test to become a journalist or public orator, no entry fee to play, no license required, etc.

Yet all of these things are okay for the Second Amendment right. Burdensome and heinous restrictions abound when it comes to the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. In many states its easier for a criminal immigrant to obtain illegally acquire licenses and money from the state with the states blessing than it is for a law abiding citizen to buy a basic tool of citizenship.

DC is playing the fool here. As everyone expected them to do. Its just a pity they are willing to waste precious civil finances on their delusions of grandeur. The concept that being an elected official some how makes one instantly cognizant of what is best for everyone is beyond me. I see a long run of trips to the court for DC. It would be wonderful if the courts would just slap DC silly but we all know the courts are unwilling to take such actions these days. One can hope though.

 

[rdhood]

While I am not surprised by what DC is doing, I am disappointed. Just so wrong on so many levels.

+1

That government and government officials can so blatantly violate the law causes society as a whole to lose respect for the law. They further compound this violation by attempting to turn law abiding citizens into criminals:

M1911Owner brings up a notable point: the "amnesty" is for items which are already contraband. Mr. Heller's are not illegal as they are stored out-of-jurisdiction, but would become illegal if he brought them in. Now while DC may temporarily forgive such transgressions, the fact that he must violate the law to obey it is downright perverse.

I don't think anyone realizes how devastating this is. It is very much like a 55mph speed limit and the war-on-drugs. Once you turn everyone into criminals, all respect for the rule of law is lost. We become every other third world country. When government fails to police itself and reel in D.C., and (instead) arrests some poor shmuck trying to follow the letter of 10,000 laws, then the serfs become discontent. What happens when the government is discontent (with not being able to enact the laws that it wants) and the people are discontent (that the laws are enacted anyway and the people are denied their rights)? Well, it is one of the preconditions of a thing that is not named at THR.

The only solution is for an immediate smack-down on the rouge elements of government... by government. Absent that... and it will be absent... we are in for 100 years inch-by-inch legal battle. It shouldn't be that way. That is THE REASON that the founders of our country enumerated 10 rights, and wrote "shall not be infringed" on the 2nd... so we wouldn't have to endure a hundred years of legal battle for basic rights. When the founders had to endure that, you saw the result in 1776: that thing that is not named at THR.

 

[Wastemore]

It appears to be time that Heller, et al use their constitutional rights as the framers intended.

 

[JDoe]

D.C.'s bizarre gun registration process at work...

Heller brought his .22 revolver in for registration...

Dick Heller arrived Friday morning carrying a 22-caliber revolver in a bright red bag...

...Heller was allowed to take the gun home later Friday after police fingerprinted him and ran a ballistics test on the weapon. The registration process is expected to be completed in several weeks after police finish the required background check.

My question is what happens to Heller and the gun if registration is denied? Heller has the unregistered gun in his possession while his registration is pending.