Help identify rifle pre WWII
- Thread starter andycamp
- Start date
- Status
Liberty1776
Member
well, yeah - generically, that is. It's a Model 98 based sporter, the likes of which were made by any of a dozen or more makers, and sold by virtually all retailers, also exported to the US. The top of the bbl should have a name on it, either of the maker or the retailer. Nice condition - any idea what caliber it is?
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
It's a pre-WWII comercial Mauser 98 sporter in some european caliber.
And a Very high quality one at that, with extra features like double-set triggers, and the folding tang sight, which is pretty unusual.
I can't read the writing in your 3rd. picture.
Can you????
It would help to make a positive I.D. if anyone knew all the details you failed to mention.
Like anything engraved or stamped anywhere on it.
rc
And a Very high quality one at that, with extra features like double-set triggers, and the folding tang sight, which is pretty unusual.
I can't read the writing in your 3rd. picture.
Can you????
It would help to make a positive I.D. if anyone knew all the details you failed to mention.
Like anything engraved or stamped anywhere on it.
rc
whichfinger
Member
I was thinking more along the lines of a Mannlicher or variant.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Clearly a Mauser -- bolt, safety, thumb cut-out for stripper clips, bolt release lever, etc.
But a beautiful sporterization done, probably in Europe, with the full-length stock (with "bail" type front sling swivel and stock-securing wedges! Cool!), barrel rib, and that fantastic inlet tang sight!
Whoever made it, it is a work of art, and looks like it saw many years of field use.
Love to hear who's marks are on it.
But a beautiful sporterization done, probably in Europe, with the full-length stock (with "bail" type front sling swivel and stock-securing wedges! Cool!), barrel rib, and that fantastic inlet tang sight!
Whoever made it, it is a work of art, and looks like it saw many years of field use.
Love to hear who's marks are on it.
additional info
Total length approx 38"
barrel is octagonal to round
right side of barrel says Guss Stahl (cast steel)
left side says Prima - Kruppscher
top says C. Stiegele Munchen
butt plate has number 11448 as well as under front scope mount same #
left side of action has 2,67g G. B P.
under that says STMG
scope is CARLZEISS and says JENA under it
below that is Zielvier Nr. 12761
the story is - my father brought it back from the war, they were receiving sniper fire from a town in Germany and when they took the town over he discovered this rifle in a house behind a door and next to it was a german uniform.
I don't know the caliber, I am guessing 7mm family, I would love to fire it after having it checked out by a Gsmith.
Total length approx 38"
barrel is octagonal to round
right side of barrel says Guss Stahl (cast steel)
left side says Prima - Kruppscher
top says C. Stiegele Munchen
butt plate has number 11448 as well as under front scope mount same #
left side of action has 2,67g G. B P.
under that says STMG
scope is CARLZEISS and says JENA under it
below that is Zielvier Nr. 12761
the story is - my father brought it back from the war, they were receiving sniper fire from a town in Germany and when they took the town over he discovered this rifle in a house behind a door and next to it was a german uniform.
I don't know the caliber, I am guessing 7mm family, I would love to fire it after having it checked out by a Gsmith.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
The gun maker = C. Stiegele Munchen = Carl Stiegele, Munich, (Germany).
Stiegele was noted for building very high grade "guild" guns from the 1800's through the beginning of WWII.
Prima Kruppscher = Higher grade steel made by the Krupp company.
Guss Stahl = (cast steel or ingot steel) so it would have been very high quality alloy steel.
Not "cast" iron or cast steel as we think of it today.
2,67g G. B P. = These marks show 2,67 grams of Gewehr Blättchen Pulver (military flake powder).
STMG = Stahl-mantel Geschoss (steel jacketed bullet).
Rifles like yours marked with only an indication of powder charge and bullet type date to 1912 or before:
See this about that:
http://www.germanguns.com/technical.html
Which leads me to think the rifle "might" be chambered in the 8x57J Mauser caliber common in German sporting rifles of that age..
The J signifies it would use the smaller .318" bullets, and not the common .323" bullets used in the military 8x57JS Mauser
rc
Stiegele was noted for building very high grade "guild" guns from the 1800's through the beginning of WWII.
Prima Kruppscher = Higher grade steel made by the Krupp company.
Guss Stahl = (cast steel or ingot steel) so it would have been very high quality alloy steel.
Not "cast" iron or cast steel as we think of it today.
2,67g G. B P. = These marks show 2,67 grams of Gewehr Blättchen Pulver (military flake powder).
STMG = Stahl-mantel Geschoss (steel jacketed bullet).
Rifles like yours marked with only an indication of powder charge and bullet type date to 1912 or before:
See this about that:
http://www.germanguns.com/technical.html
Which leads me to think the rifle "might" be chambered in the 8x57J Mauser caliber common in German sporting rifles of that age..
The J signifies it would use the smaller .318" bullets, and not the common .323" bullets used in the military 8x57JS Mauser
rc
Last edited:
I tried pulling the barrel and was afraid to force it. I removed all screws, barrel wedges, bolt, front strap clip, etc... Any suggestions?
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Did you get the rear tang screw hiding under the fold-down tang sight??
Can you wiggle the trigger guard out??
If so, put the front guard screw back in and tap on it with a soft-face plastic hammer.
It's probably just stuck in the stock with old dried dirt & oil.
Whacking the barrel & receiver with a plastic hammer might vibrate it enough to pop it loose.
It might be necessary to remove the steel forearm cap too but I can't tell if it wraps over the barrel or not in the photo.
At any rate, easy does it.
rc
Can you wiggle the trigger guard out??
If so, put the front guard screw back in and tap on it with a soft-face plastic hammer.
It's probably just stuck in the stock with old dried dirt & oil.
Whacking the barrel & receiver with a plastic hammer might vibrate it enough to pop it loose.
It might be necessary to remove the steel forearm cap too but I can't tell if it wraps over the barrel or not in the photo.
At any rate, easy does it.
rc
Last edited:
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Yep.
You pull one to "set" the other one.
And then it has a pull of only a very few ounces and goes off when you touch it.
Double set triggers can be further classified by phase, but I don't know which one you have.
A double-set, single-phase trigger can only be operated by first pulling the set trigger, and then pulling the firing trigger.
A double-set, double-phase trigger can be operated as a standard trigger if the set trigger is not pulled, or as a set trigger by first pulling the set trigger.
rc
You pull one to "set" the other one.
And then it has a pull of only a very few ounces and goes off when you touch it.
Double set triggers can be further classified by phase, but I don't know which one you have.
A double-set, single-phase trigger can only be operated by first pulling the set trigger, and then pulling the firing trigger.
A double-set, double-phase trigger can be operated as a standard trigger if the set trigger is not pulled, or as a set trigger by first pulling the set trigger.
rc
winfried
Member
Hi, the correct name and use of this type of gun is called a "stutzen". It was and is prefered for hunting in the mountains of Europe. The relatively short barrel was supposed to make climbing easier and the full stock to protect the rifle barrel when climbing in the rocks hunting gams.
Realistically, stutzen have an accuracy problem when the barrel gets hot or cold during shooting a number of rounds. First the underside, embedded side warms up slower and the rifle shoots low, then when the rifle is getting colder, the barrel keeps heat longer on the underside, bends up and the rifle shoots high.
Still used today, it is more a symbol of wealth.
Regards
Winfried
Realistically, stutzen have an accuracy problem when the barrel gets hot or cold during shooting a number of rounds. First the underside, embedded side warms up slower and the rifle shoots low, then when the rifle is getting colder, the barrel keeps heat longer on the underside, bends up and the rifle shoots high.
Still used today, it is more a symbol of wealth.
Regards
Winfried
- Status
