Help identifying unknown powder. Pics inside.

[Exposure]

I recently bought a huge lot of reloading stuff and there were probably about 12 different cans of powder in with it. Of those cans five of them were Unique. Two of those were really cool old square metal cans, one of which was still factory sealed!

I got a large 4 lb keg that was unmarked. It is obvious that at some time in the past there was a label glued to the keg but it is long since departed. It is however stamped "UN-035". It has a clear plastic pull out spigot with a black screw on plastic top. To my surprise when I unscrewed the top I found it was still factory sealed with the top of the clear spigot being marked "cut here". So I cut off the top and poured a little out and it sure looks like unique. It smells like the other containers of Unique so I am going to go out on a limb and say that it IS Unique. Just curious if anyone can confirm this.

The lot of reloading stuff included a MEC 762 press, a HUGE batch of AA 12 GA shotgun hulls, a big box of wads, and a whole bunch of 209 primers so I am guessing the previous owner was using Unique for his shotgun loads.

See the pics below. Any help is appreciated.



The mystery 4 lb. keg just before I sliced open the spigot. I have no idea how long this has been factory sealed. I felt a little bad opening it after it has been sealed up for who knows how many years.



The really, really cool square metal cans. I love these things! Plus you can see the one on the right still has its factory seal intact. I think that is pretty cool. Any idea when these were made?



A comparison of the different powders. The one of the right sure does look like Unique.



In the end I will be going down to the bench and loading a few for my 1911 with the mystery powder. I'll report back with the results!

 

[Quoheleth]

Ummm....unless you can verify that code from Alliant as being Unique, I would not - repeat, not - just start loading up ammo. I would bet the farm that what you paid for that 4# jug is a lot less than medical bills from a Kaboom.

"Hey - I found this bottle of medicine in a box at a garage sale. It looks like Tylenol but doesn't have a wrapper. I took a couple pills out and they look like Tylenol. I have a headache - I think I'll take two because I believe it is Tylenol." You wouldn't do that, would ya?

Q

 

[Exposure]

I appreciate the sentiment but loading 5 grains of what by all appearances, at the very least, is a shotgun powder is a FAR cry from ingesting unknown medication.

I can't think of any circumstance where 5 grains of any flake powder under a 230 grain .45 slug would blow up a pistol. Needless to say I am willing to take the risk.

IF, my 5 grains of "supposed" Unique blows up my 1911 then I will come back with my tail between my legs and proclaim you were right!

If it comes back having pushed a 230 grain slug across the Chrony at around 750 FPS then I will know for sure.

I was really just hoping someone else might have a keg like this out there and could confirm my assumption.

 

[NCsmitty]

+1 to Quoheleth's assessment.

You would be foolhardy too guess that the unmarked can is what you think it is.

It is fertilizer, IMO.



NCsmitty

 

[ReloaderFred]

Contrary to what I would normally tell you, I'm going to venture that the keg does in fact hold Unique. All the old round cardboard kegs I've emptied over the years were labeled with the lot number the same as your keg. All my kegs of Bullseye had a lot number beginning with "BE", and the Unique kegs had a lot number beginning with "UN".

With that said, you "may" be ok, but no guarantee. I think your cautious approach will prove one way or the other whether this is Unique, though, if it were me, I would probably load a 185 gr. bullet in the .45 and see what it chronographed. That should give a little more safety margin.

As I said at the beginning, this goes completely contrary to what I would normally advise, but the lot number is a good clue, combined with the fact that the keg was still sealed..

Hope this helps.

Fred

PS: That keg isn't really that old, probably from the 1970's. Most of the cardboard kegs I've kept are completely cardboard, top, bottom and sides. The cardboard slip top rotates to a square hole that when aligned with the matching square hole in the container, provided a pour spout of sorts. I've got several of those, both 8 pound and 4 pound kegs.

 

[noylj]

You know, it is not a good idea, but...
That just screams Hercules. That means the fastest powder it could be is BE. The lot # says Unique.
These powders are not sensitive to light loads (if any powders really are—there is only so much energy in a given weight of powder and the powders that say not to load below Xgn are because they will sputter and clog up, not that they will blow your gun apart) and if I let my Scottish heritage out, I would start at slightly below Bullseye and Red Dot starting loads and work up.
Heck, if you are worried about the "danger" of light load (and Unique has always been used in very light rifle loads), Simply point the muzzle up (a bit) to get the powder at the primer end and gently bring the gun down to point down range.
Some how, the reloaders of the past would not understand the lack of knowledge on how to work up a load...

 

[Maj Dad]

My Money Says It's Unique...

The lot # on my paper keg of Unique is also UN + # and the Red Dot & Green Dot keg lots are RD & GD + #, respectively. I would treat it as Unique, and just use starting loads & work up.

 

[Walkalong]

4 lbs? I would be testing carefully myself. Not for the novice, but an experienced reloader should be able to find a safe load with it. Start low, work up carefully.

 

[Exposure]

I'm still alive and have all my fingers!

Thanks for the responses all. I also thought that the big "UN" on the can was an almost dead giveaway that this was Unique. But having some reassurance was a nice thing!

To be on the safe side I took Alliant's published charge weight of 6.5 grains under a 230 grain FMJ and reduced it by 75%. This gave me a starting charge of 4.8 grains. I made up 5 rounds with the "mystery" powder.

As a control I also used one of the other cans of Unique and made up 5 rounds with 4.8 grains as well.

I went to my backyard test range, set up the chronograph, and got ready. I fired the control rounds first and got an average velocity of 622 FPS. The action cycled fine, the brass fell right in front of my feet, and the rounds were very accurate.

I then single loaded one of the test rounds and fired across the chronograph. There was NO explosion. Just a locked back slide, a reading of 618 FPS on the chronograph, and a fully intact 1911. I proceded to load the next four and got an average of 612 FPS, they were also very accurate.

So long story longer, it IS Unique and I now have the 4 lb keg plus almost another 5 pounds of the stuff in various containers. It should keep me shooting pistol for a long, long time!

 

[noylj]

Do you remotely fire the first round?
Aren't .45s amazing how light the loads can be and still cycle?

 

[Quoheleth]

I do not apologize for my caution, but I am pleased for your success and windfall.

Congrats on a successful experiment.

Q

 

[Exposure]

noylj-

I did not remotely fire the pistol. I was 100% confident that what I had was Unique. Therefore I just went for it. Foolish? Maybe, but all the evidence said that this HAD to be Unique. If it had been a single Ziploc bag sitting by itself I would have been much less confident. But in this case I was positive I was safe.



Quoheleth-

I appreciate your caution before and certainly didn't mean any disrespect towards you! Thanks for the congrats, I'm pretty pleased with this whole purchase.

 

[jcwit]

I was 100% confident that what I had was Unique. Therefore I just went for it. Foolish?

Glad it worked out OK for you, however I did a just go for it once, picked up 1 finger 20 feet away, another was still attached by the skin on the knuckle. Dr was able to reattach them but I wouldn't suggest anyone go thru that experience.

Powder's cheap compared to blood and pain, course they have morphine shots for the pain, and they sure make you feel good!

 

[Exposure]

jcwit-

Any chance you would share your story of how your accident happened? I would like to hear it personally.

If you don't want to I understand perfectly. But it might save someone else from having an accident!

 

[Steve H]

If it were mine

I'd call it fertilizer

 

[JimKirk]

Being it was a sealed container ... I think you did the right thing. Had the seal been cut ...no way would I have did what you did.

Jimmy K

 

[snuffy]

You know, it is not a good idea, but...
That just screams Hercules. That means the fastest powder it could be is BE. The lot # says Unique.
These powders are not sensitive to light loads (if any powders really are—there is only so much energy in a given weight of powder and the powders that say not to load below Xgn are because they will sputter and clog up, not that they will blow your gun apart) and if I let my Scottish heritage out, I would start at slightly below Bullseye and Red Dot starting loads and work up.

That right there is how you should identify a mystery powder. You assume it's unique, but load it like it could be the fastest powder us handloaders have available,, bullseye. Then you're safe, no matter what. If it's some much slower powder, all you have is a squib. If you're expecting that, and the bullet doesn't clear the barrel, no harm done. That's what they make brass rods and a small hammer for.

From the responses of some here, I suspect they never have used surplus powder. Every bottle of surplus HAS to be treated somewhat like an unknown powder. The seller has a good idea of what it SHOULD behave like, but everybody knows to start real low and work up. Usually the pull-down stuff turns out to be slightly slower, seems to have lost some of it's zap being loaded and then re-claimed. I got an 8 pounder of WC-844 that was sold as new,(never loaded), powder. It turned out to be slightly faster, took about a grain less to achieve what I wanted for my AR. Better economy on an already cheaper,(much), powder.

 

[FROGO207]

Snuffy you are correct. There has been a lot of dumbing down of the reloading of ammo. IMHO the lawyer/lawsuit route was wholly responsible. I remember as a youngster in my grandfathers reloading room paper sacks of powder that were hand printed on them with certain info. Say----use XX grains with XX bullet for XX caliber. Nothing more and no mention of what the powder used was at all. Most likely some surplus stuff from who knows where. There was always some load development needed when a new sack was delivered to the reloading room. He always had a fairly large keg of black powder sitting in the corner too. I don't recommend this but seems he always had a lit White Owl cigar in his mouth from when he woke up till he went to bed. Wonder why we never got blown up??? Never had any problems with the reloaded shells at all that I can recall and I shot some of them most every day.

**Note--doing what is said in above could be dangerous and is to be avoided.

 

[GP100man]

I pulled down a bunch of 44 once & the powder was very larged flake powder , either 800x or Herco .

Approched the very same way as Exposure did treated it as BE & worked up !!

Turned out to be Herco or gave me the same speeds as Herco .

The way I understand surplus powders is they make a "batch" which may be tons !!

Then run pressure tests on the Lot then adjust loading accordingly .

 

[MrOldLude]

Glad it worked out OK for you, however I did a just go for it once, picked up 1 finger 20 feet away, another was still attached by the skin on the knuckle. Dr was able to reattach them but I wouldn't suggest anyone go thru that experience.

Powder's cheap compared to blood and pain, course they have morphine shots for the pain, and they sure make you feel good!

Sweet. Can we see pics of your scars?