ontarget
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To continue the thought of my last question, how would a .45 Kentucky rifle loaded with GOEX 3F and PRB compare to a 45-70 with similar weight bullet and BP load? I'm looking at range and trajectory, etc.
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help me compare
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junkman_01
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Seems to me that the ballistics would be similar. Personally, I wouldn't shoot such a light bullet in a .45-70 though.
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ontarget
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What would be a good bullet for the KY rifle (33" BBL 1:66 .45 cal.)?
45-70 Ranger
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With that rate of twist? ROUND BALL!!!!!
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ontarget
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What kind of an effective range can I expect with PRB ?
arcticap
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The TC Hawken has a shorter barrel than a 33" Kentucky rifle so the velocities below may be lower than actual. I don't know what the powder charge or velocity would be for a .45-70 case loaded with a 150 grain 45cal-EPP-150-Ultra Gamer from Dash Caliber which is the lightest .45 bullet that I've heard of.
And the Hawken loads listed below predate 777 powder which is an even faster powder.
http://www.dashcaliber.com/big_lube_2_7.html
And the Hawken loads listed below predate 777 powder which is an even faster powder.
http://www.dashcaliber.com/big_lube_2_7.html
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Loyalist Dave
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OK a few things. A "kentucky" rifle fires round ball, as a general rule. A T/C is a plains rifle, and though they fired round ball historically, today they fire conical bullets such as the Maxi-Ball and Maxi-hunter, as well as round ball. The vast majority of T/C half stocked rifles out there (imho) were bought for ML season, but are not used by traditionalists, and conical bullets are used in them for hunting.
For the average round ball rifles using open sights out there, .45, .50, .54 ..., you are looking at hunting at 100 yards or less. You can reach a little farther with a hot load, but not really beyond 150 yards, all other things being equal. The weights of the patched round ball are on average .440 125 grain, .490 180 grain, .530 225 grain. So hunting effective range would be 100 yards, and if you were writing a story about the Revolutionary War, hits on standing or mounted targets were historically recorded in the 300-400 yard range.
A .45-70, aka the .45-70 Government, generally fires from 300 grain projectiles on up..., 405 grain was/is popular, and one government loading used a 500 grain projectile, and you can find that weight available today as well. Again you are looking at a 100+ yard hunting gun with open sights, peep sights will probably double that range, and a scope you could lob a round probably out to 300 yards, vs. big game. (I have met a fellow who regularly uses a flip up tang sight on his .45-70 lever gun out to 200 yards on deer) The energy the round gives is a good deal higher due to the massive size of the projectile compared to the round ball shooter's loads. And with a Quigly Down Under scenario, you are looking at hitting standing or mounted targets at 800 yards as being possible.
The muzzleloaders shooting conicals..., you can find some pretty hefty conicals out there, with the .45 caliber ones running about 250 grains, the .50 running about 320-350 grains, and the .54 about 430 grains. So the upper end of the .45 ML using a conical is probably approaching the lower end of the traditional .45-70 power.
I often point out to folks who poo poo the patched round ball that if they agree that a 450 grain bullet from a .45-70 would kill a deer at 100 yards or less, then why do they think a 225 grain round ball fire from a .54 caliber muzzle loader would not? The energy difference at that range is not a factor as both projectiles will pass through a deer on a broadside shot. The patched round ball would probably have a flatter trajectory to answer your trajectory question.
LD
For the average round ball rifles using open sights out there, .45, .50, .54 ..., you are looking at hunting at 100 yards or less. You can reach a little farther with a hot load, but not really beyond 150 yards, all other things being equal. The weights of the patched round ball are on average .440 125 grain, .490 180 grain, .530 225 grain. So hunting effective range would be 100 yards, and if you were writing a story about the Revolutionary War, hits on standing or mounted targets were historically recorded in the 300-400 yard range.
A .45-70, aka the .45-70 Government, generally fires from 300 grain projectiles on up..., 405 grain was/is popular, and one government loading used a 500 grain projectile, and you can find that weight available today as well. Again you are looking at a 100+ yard hunting gun with open sights, peep sights will probably double that range, and a scope you could lob a round probably out to 300 yards, vs. big game. (I have met a fellow who regularly uses a flip up tang sight on his .45-70 lever gun out to 200 yards on deer) The energy the round gives is a good deal higher due to the massive size of the projectile compared to the round ball shooter's loads. And with a Quigly Down Under scenario, you are looking at hitting standing or mounted targets at 800 yards as being possible.
The muzzleloaders shooting conicals..., you can find some pretty hefty conicals out there, with the .45 caliber ones running about 250 grains, the .50 running about 320-350 grains, and the .54 about 430 grains. So the upper end of the .45 ML using a conical is probably approaching the lower end of the traditional .45-70 power.
I often point out to folks who poo poo the patched round ball that if they agree that a 450 grain bullet from a .45-70 would kill a deer at 100 yards or less, then why do they think a 225 grain round ball fire from a .54 caliber muzzle loader would not? The energy difference at that range is not a factor as both projectiles will pass through a deer on a broadside shot. The patched round ball would probably have a flatter trajectory to answer your trajectory question.
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ontarget
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Very helpful Guys, Thanks for the help. Can anyone recommend replacement sights for the KY rifle? The stock sights are not quite doing the job. I just can't pick up the brass front blade well enough.
arcticap
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Track of the Wolf has the most sights, both front and rear.
Many front blades are available in brass, copper or steel, in different height and thicknesses.
The bases of many imported Kentucky rifles have a 3/8 inch dovetail which measures .375 decimal inches.
Here's Track's search results for "steel front sight":
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Search.aspx?Search=steel front sight
Many front blades are available in brass, copper or steel, in different height and thicknesses.
The bases of many imported Kentucky rifles have a 3/8 inch dovetail which measures .375 decimal inches.
Here's Track's search results for "steel front sight":
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Search.aspx?Search=steel front sight
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arcticap
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You should be able to simply blacken the brass blade.
Birchwood Casey makes brass black or use a permanent Sharpie brand marker.
Some folks paint it bright light green or orange.
Birchwood Casey makes brass black or use a permanent Sharpie brand marker.
Some folks paint it bright light green or orange.
Loyalist Dave
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That's good advice. Me, I like a very thin silver front sight, as I have found the thicker front sight blades don't really get all of the accuracy out of the barrel at a target out at 100 yards. The thin silver really shows up well for me at "first light" when hunting deer..., though I have to be careful as it's pretty soft so it can't get banged around at all.
Another thing you can do, not really traditional on some rifles, is get a peep sight for the rear sight. If it has a decent sized disc, it lowers the amount of incoming light into the pupil of your eye, and tends to allow the shooter a better focus of the front sight..., a good trick if you eyes are getting older, btw.
LD
Another thing you can do, not really traditional on some rifles, is get a peep sight for the rear sight. If it has a decent sized disc, it lowers the amount of incoming light into the pupil of your eye, and tends to allow the shooter a better focus of the front sight..., a good trick if you eyes are getting older, btw.
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ontarget
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Yes, a peep is kind of what I am leaning toward. I have loved the peep on the M16 since my days in the Corps. Qual'ed expert 5 times in 4 years!!
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