Help me ID this war rifle

[Montanagopher]

This probably isnt hard for most of you but I have no idea what this is other than it appears to have a Mauser style action.







Markings are minimal other than a 4 digit serial number preceded by the letter L. That and the marking on the stock in the last pic.

 

[Sport45]

Can we see the action from the top? How about the bolt in a little more detail? Is the number on the stock in the middle pic the same as the serial number?

 

[Numeric]

Spanish M1916 2nd-pattern short rifle. Originally chambered in 7x57mm, but may have been rechambered for 7.62x51mm in the 60's for issue to the Guardia Civil.

 

[303tom]

Numeric is correct, that is a M1916 2nd-pattern short rifle, you see those unmarked Spanish Mauser`s show up every so often..............

 

[desidog]

^ Well, kinda...

If not 7mm Mauser; It was rechambered, but not for 7.62x51. Back then, they used 7,62 CETME which ran a lot lower pressure...so shooting .308win in that rifle is not advisable. This topic has been popping up here a lot lately.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

You can't "rechamber" a 7mm for 7.62mm. You have to rebarrel it -- a .308 cal bullet won't go down a .284 bore.

M1916s rebarreled for 7.63 CETME are limited to loads developing about 48,000 CUP (and preferrably below) whereas the 7.62X51 (which is virtually identical to the 7.62 CETME in terms of dimensions) can go to 55,000 CUP.

 

[Sport45]

a .308 cal bullet won't go down a .284 bore.

Yes it will. It just won't be .308 when it comes out.
And who knows how much pressure it would develop?

I don't advise doing this, of course. But stranger things have happened...

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
a .308 cal bullet won't go down a .284 bore.

Yes it will. It just won't be .308 when it comes out.
And who knows how much pressure it would develop?

With a Model 1916? Enough to shatter the receiver and blow the bolt through the shooter's head. But the bullet will definitely not come out the muzzle.

 

[Sport45]

I didn't say it'd be a good idea to try...

In .30 Carbine it might squeeze through without blowing.

Never mind. I just realized you were talking about .308 Win. I was thinking generic 30 caliber.

 

[desidog]

Well, .30 Carbine and .308win use projectiles the same diameter...

Ah, semantics.... the underlying cause of half the posts on THR.

Wording aside, the important thing to note is that while the gun pictured above in the OP will chamber .308win; it may not be in the interests of the shooter's health to fire it.

 

[gaweidert]

I owned one for awhile in 308. That beast kicked like a mule. For whatever reason it seemed to be the hardest recoil of any milsurps that I owned. Even the hard hitting Turk 8mm ammunition didn't bother me as much.

Plus the cleaning rod tended to walk out while firing. Removing it before firing is not possible as it holds the front piece on the stock in place.

 

[Cosmoline]

So this is actually a converted 1893 Mauser that was then reconvered to 7.62 CETME? Indeed it would not be a good idea to run full powered 308 Win out of it.

 

[Montanagopher]

What pic do I need to post to see if it was rechambered?


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

 

[Montanagopher]

Whoops double post

 

[Vern Humphrey]

What pic do I need to post to see if it was rechambered?

A picture of the chamber cast.

But it can't be "rechambered" from 7mm to 7.62mm -- it has to be rebarreled. If it has been rebarreled, you would have a .30 caliber bore, and a .30 caliber bullet would nearly fit, while a 7mm bullet would fall down the bore.

 

[Shadow 7D]

it should be marked, ESPECIALLY if it's a FR7
either over the chamber or along side, OR on the barrel shank immediately behind the sights

 

[Jim Watson]

An FR7 is very distinct, with its own stock and sights.
This is a 1916 with characteristic gas hole and thumb notch as altered from 1893.

It SHOULD be marked if converted to 7.62 whatever, but I would not bet on it. Best to check. I don't think a 7mm chamber will take a .308 or vice versa, so you don't need to run screaming to a gunsmith and pay for a chamber cast.
Whether for CETME or even NATO, I doubt the border guards and Guardia put in a whole lot of range time with them and didn't blow many up with +20% ammo.

IF converted, I would load for it at .308 starting load levels which will equal or beat 7mm ballistics at below 7mm pressure. If not converted, 7x57 is not loaded any hotter than it ever was, in deference to just these old rifles.

 

[Marlin270]

My M1916 Spanish Mausers have "CAL 7.62" stamped in the metal next to the vent hole on the left of the receiver. That doesn't show in your photo. Maybe a clearer shot of that area. You can poke around on this site: http://masterton.us/Spanmauhome

 

[jaimeshawn3]

I agree with the others that this is a Spanish Mauser, probably in 7.62x51. Do you have calipers? Do you know how to slug the bore? I have one that is a great little rifle but the bore was large so I use hard-cast-lead pistol bullets in it and reduced loads. Shoots great - It's the favorite rifle of one of my nephews - He's about 10 years old, and can hit a rope with it, so the recoil is low and the accuracy is pretty good.

 

[Numeric]

http://www.deltagunshop.com/clearwater_reboring/faq.html#faq1

http://masterton.us/Unmarked1916