Help me pick a Revolver for Self defense

[Country Boy 14]

Well, based on what i've shot I would say a 45 acp revolver would be awesome! I really don't like 357's, too much crap to go along with pulling the trigger. Heck I like 44 mags better than a 357.

 

[skidder]

Self defense could be anything from a drug induced hippie to a bear with hunger pains. Cover your bases and get a 44 Mag, it will shoot both cartridges and take care of both problems...the hippie and the bear.

 

[jad0110]

The 6" GP may have a bit less muzzle rise than a 4", but I don't think the difference would be all that noticeable. The advantage to the 4" is that with quality gear and the right clothing (tall, baggy shirts with patterns), you could at least conceal carry it. Barrel length is generally not an issue until you hit 4" and longer, then it becomes increasingly awkward to sit down.

I tried carrying my 6" S&W Model 14 once. It was easier than a thought, but it tended to get uncomfortable when sitting for more than 20 minutes.

 

[BluedRevolver]

wouldn't .45 ACP be superior to .44 Special because it's got a .452 diameter, 230 grain bullet going at least 850-900 fps, while .44 spec is only a .429 diameter 200 grain bullet going 900 fps? Not to mention the fact that the .45 acp has been continuously improved on for self defense for a century, while the .44 Special has largely been unused? Do they make .44 Special ammo that's accepted as superior to .45 acp but not up to .44 mag levels?


I do, however, like the thought of being able to load .44 Specials for self defense and .44 magnum for hunting/large animal self defense. If yall could convince me that .44 special is just as good or better than .45 ACP, I very well might go with a Smith and Wesson model 29 or the like.

 

[357 Terms]

I do, however, like the thought of being able to load .44 Specials for self defense and .44 magnum for hunting/large animal self defense

That is probably your best option; much more versatile than the 45 acp.

 

[22-rimfire]

Noticed there are two threads on yours on the subject (357 mag one). I agree that the 44 special is a good choice for you. You are not necessarily concerned about concealed carry as much as muzzle blast, effect on the target, and ease of use. The biggest negative about 44 special ammunition is that it is harder to find than 44 mag. This is fixable with online purchases and perhaps reloading.

The 45ACP is also a good choice for you in a revolver.

 

[BluedRevolver]

The only double action .45 ACP I can find is the new Smith and Wesson 625JM, which I don't much care for. I can't find a pre-lock one other than isolated auctions. I'll keep an eye out though, but the .44 Mag revolver is becoming increasingly attractive...

 

[fireside44]

I do, however, like the thought of being able to load .44 Specials for self defense and .44 magnum for hunting/large animal self defense. If yall could convince me that .44 special is just as good or better than .45 ACP, I very well might go with a Smith and Wesson model 29 or the like.

Let me just say that the time I got popped with that .44 special wasn't half as memorable as the time I got nailed with a .45. That extra 23 thousandths and 50fps was the painful part.

Just handle some guns in both calibers and pick the one that suits you best. They are more or less the same out of a revolver. As for your .44 magnum revolver, most of them won't really make a realistic carry weapon and if they do, they aren't really harnessing the full potential of the magnum though I'm sure a couple die hards might disagree.

 

[woad_yurt]

Since you're very familiar with a K-22, I suggest a K-frame S&W, like a Model 10, 67, 19, etc. You'll feel right at home.

 

[BluedRevolver]

so .44 spec is as good as .45 acp?

 

[Scipio Africanus]

The .44 special and .45 auto are as ballistically similar as two cartridges of different bore size ever have been. With bullets of similar design, construction, and velocity, the .45 has a diameter advantage (10%), thus creating slightly larger wound channels. The .44 special, has a sectional density advantage (approx 10%), this coupled with a little narrower bullet equates to a little more penetration. I doubt any animal or human would be able to tell a difference if hit by either, and they both have proven to be superlative manstoppers. You will be well served by either.

The .44 special has not exactly languished for 100 years. It has benefitted from R&D on the .44 mag and there are many really fine projectiles that expand well at .44 spec. velocities. The .44 special can be loaded a bit hotter than the .45 auto in the right guns, and this is an advantage.

In my opinion, a 4in barreled .44 mag revolver makes a really fantastic candidate for "one handgun to do everything". It is a fine manstopper in .44 special and even better with magnum loads. Would be a good choice for home defense, is reasonable enough to carry all day in the field, is not too big to conceal, is a "big" gun in a fight, thus making it easier to hit with than a smaller gun, it can be very accurate at longer ranes, it can take any game in the lower 48, and will do against big bears in a pinch. Go buy one

And if you have a big bore revolver, you need to reload in order to practice enough to get really good with it. And reloading is fun

 

[CCantu357]

Model 19 or 66 Smith stoked with .38+p Buffalo Bore. Might not be .44 or .45 but its a hot, low recoil round. Or just put some soft kicking 110 grain .357 in it.

 

[JohnhenrySTL]

I just bought a Smith&Wesson 442. I have written a little about it on here, lol. It is only a .38 special, but for me, it works great as a ccw gun. I have no complaints, and payed barely over four hundred dollars for it. I feel fine with my loads. It is double action, I would look into it.

 

[Franco2shoot]

You want to spend a little or you want to spend alot....
I picked up the Vindicator, and its a perfect nitestand HD piece. Practice with .38 special.. I've put several boxes of Magnum as well as .38 special and have had good results. Here's a link:
http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=22

KKKKFL

 

[Lonerider357]

I'm waiting for Charter Arms to come out with a 45acp Bulldog!!

 

[Stainz]

Taurus had a Tracker series in .45 ACP a few years back. A friend had a 4" version - it was a tad sloppy - used their own 5-slot "Stellar" clips. The best bargain these days, admittedly only a 2 5/8" barrel but it uses the common six-slot 'moonclips' to hold .45 ACP's, is the <30 oz Al/Sc framed/SS cylinder S&W Governor - list $689. It also chambers .45 Schofield, .45 Colt, and 2.5" .410's.

Now - if you are hell-bent on getting a .44 S&W Special - here are my two favorite house/woods/range revolvers that will chamber the round.



The bottom is a 3" 696 - canned some nine years ago - hard to find - a 'cult' like desire, almost. I can tell you - the 4" 629, actually a current production .44 Magnum, is a fine .44 S&W Special. Just clean the chambers before putting the hotter & longer Magnums in it. Then you have dangerous animal protection. It weighs <6 oz more, has a larger hammer and trigger, an extra inch of barrel and sight radius, and extra chamber, and a real forcing cone - and will take real .44 Magnums. The 696 is a five-shooter with a dimunitive forcing cone - and good used ones will run more than the 629 new. You can fit either with an S&W/Hogue .500 Magnum grip, ~$36 from S&W Accessories, to cover the backstrap and lighten the effective recoil considerably. Both revolvers are shown with aftermarket Ahrends wood grips. Good luck!

Stainz

 

[Viper225]

I guess I will wade in with my first post.

I am pretty sure you do not reload.
It would appear that you are more concerned with Home SD than concealed carry, but would like to keep the concealed carry option open.

You currently have a K Frame 22 to practice with.

You are concerned about excessive recoil and muzzle blast.

You are not into Late Model Lock S&W revolvers.


For My Money:

I would probably look at a used 3" Model 65 or 13 Heavy Barrel as my first option.

Next choice would be a new 3" GP100 Ruger. I would not rule out the WC GP100 Talo Special addition. Nice set of Novak Sights. Note The Blued version should be out soon. That should put a smile on your face.

After that I would look at a 4" GP100, 686, 586, 681, 581, or a 66.

I would practice with 38 Specials, and finish the day at the range with a cylinder full of 357 carry ammo.

My reasoning for the 357 Magnum over other choices mentioned is:
01. Store Bought Ammunition cost and availability. 38/357 is available and economical to shoot.
02. Quality DA Carryable Revolvers in 40 S&W/10mm, 44 Special, 44 Magnum, 45 acp and 45 Colt are very expensive.

With that said if you do not mind spending $800 or more, and are willing to spend more for your ammunition a 310 Night Guard shooting 40 S&W and 10mm, a 329 Night Guard shooting 44 Special/44 Magnum, a 325 Night Guard shooting 45 acp/45AR is about as good as it gets for a self defense revolver in my opinion. You can also get a 386 Night Guard in a 7 shot 38/357, and a 327 Night Guard an 8 Shot Air Weight N Frame 38/357.

When I carry something larger than my 638 it is normally my 310 Night Guard. I also carry a 3" 625, a 4" 64, and a 4" 610. My wifes House Gun is a 4" 686.

Bob R

 

[Stainz]

One last comparison - the S&W 642 5-shot .38 and the 2 5/8" barrel Governor, a six-shot .45 ACP/Schofield/Colt & 2.5" .410 shell launcher.



No question - the 642 is my 24/7 pocket protector - the Governor, with 250gr Gold Dot JHP's in .45 Colt, is near the bed at night.

Stainz

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

Based on your stated requirements, two revolvers seem to be a perfect match, one being a pre-lock S&W Model 13 (.357 Magnum) in "FBI Configuration," i.e., with three inch bull barrel and round butt frame. The second one, and perhaps even better fit, since you seem to like bigger diameter and heavier bullets, would be the recent run of Charter Arms .44 Bulldogs, which are chambered in .44 Special. I have one of each, and I highly recommend both, especially wearing a set of Pachmyr Compact grips.

The S&W is the more refined of the two, in all respects, but the Bulldog can be mastered just as easily, and will serve you well. It's also, as I said, closer to the ideal you expressed.

 

[Trad Archer]

For me, I've fallen in love with my Ruger SP101 in 327 Federal Magnum.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

"For me, I've fallen in love with my Ruger SP101 in 327 Federal Magnum."

Awesome little guns, but pretty far afield from what he specified.

 

[ACP]

3" S&W Model Model 13 (blued) or 65 (stainless)

K-frame, fixed sights, .357 Magnum

load it with Buffalo Bore's reduced recoil .357 Magnum load

an alternative would be a +P .38 Special 158-grain lead semi wadcutter hollow point (LSWCHP)

also, don't discount the S&W Airweights for personal protection. Learn to shoot it fast and accurately and it will serve you well.

 

[230therapy]

.45 has a diameter advantage (10%), thus creating slightly larger wound channels.

The following ignores anything regarding temporary wound channel/cavity. It's not relevant to handgun bullets that do not create hydrostatic shock.

Wound channel (WC) diameter does not directly correlate with bullet diameter depending upon bullet shape at and during impact. Round nosed bullets create wound channels that have a smaller diameter than the outside dimensions of the bullet. WC diameter on bullets with any sort of flat point equals the diameter of the flat point. JHPs create conical shaped wound channels (assuming it stays straight). Most behave like bigger FMJ round nose, though the actual shape of the bullet upon impact determines results. If it's more flat pointed, then you're going to get a larger channel than if it mushrooms.

I'm trying to find the citation for average wound channel size for 45 ACP FMJ round nose. I believe it was in the .30"-.32" range. I think 9x19mm FMJ was in the .20" range.

 

[Scipio Africanus]

The following ignores anything regarding temporary wound channel/cavity. It's not relevant to handgun bullets that do not create hydrostatic shock.

How is this so? One would think that if a cartridge does not create significant hydrostatic shock, frontal area would be of paramount importance in the discussion of wound channels or crush cavities.


The question being posed was: so .44 spec is as good as .45 acp?
If you read the post, you saw that I compared and contrasted the above stated cartridges and came to the conclusion that they very similar.

So called hydrostatic shock is not terribly relevant in discussing low velocity handgun cartridges/bullets and I did not referance hydrostatic shock, but rather frontal area.
Unexpanded, .45 (.452) caliber bullets have a frontal area of: .64 in
Unexpanded, .44 (.430) caliber bullets have a frontal area of: .58 in

Thus, given bullets of equal weight and at equal velovity, and similar design and construction (i.e. .44 Kieth bullet compared to .45 Kieth bullet or Hornady XTP to Hornady XTP), .45 bullets will make slightly wider permanent crush cavities or "wound channels" than will .44 bullets.
And .44 bullets will, given the above criteria, penetrate a little deeper.

Wound channel may not directly correlate to caliber, however it does correlate, your comparison of 9mm and .45 bullets is a fine example.
.451 bullets = .63 sq. in of area
.355 bullets = .39 sq. in of area
The .45 bullet being 61% larger. The numbers you gave for wound/crush channels, .3" vs .2", again a 66% difference. So caliber and wound channel, all other things being equal, must be at least roughly analgous.

But now we are splitting hairs, as is the difference between the .44 Special and .45 Auto.

 

[BluedRevolver]

The following ignores anything regarding temporary wound channel/cavity. It's not relevant to handgun bullets that do not create hydrostatic shock.

How is this so? One would think that if a cartridge does not create significant hydrostatic shock, frontal area would be of paramount importance in the discussion of wound channels or crush cavities.


The question being posed was: so .44 spec is as good as .45 acp?
If you read the post, you saw that I compared and contrasted the above stated cartridges and came to the conclusion that they very similar.

So called hydrostatic shock is not terribly relevant in discussing low velocity handgun cartridges/bullets and I did not referance hydrostatic shock, but rather frontal area.
Unexpanded, .45 (.452) caliber bullets have a frontal area of: .64 in
Unexpanded, .44 (.430) caliber bullets have a frontal area of: .58 in

Thus, given bullets of equal weight and at equal velovity, and similar design and construction (i.e. .44 Kieth bullet compared to .45 Kieth bullet or Hornady XTP to Hornady XTP), .45 bullets will make slightly wider permanent crush cavities or "wound channels" than will .44 bullets.
And .44 bullets will, given the above criteria, penetrate a little deeper.

Wound channel may not directly correlate to caliber, however it does correlate, your comparison of 9mm and .45 bullets is a fine example.
.451 bullets = .63 sq. in of area
.355 bullets = .39 sq. in of area
The .45 bullet being 61% larger. The numbers you gave for wound/crush channels, .3" vs .2", again a 66% difference. So caliber and wound channel, all other things being equal, must be at least roughly analgous.

But now we are splitting hairs, as is the difference between the .44 Special and .45 Auto.

but what about the .44 special that goes 1050 or 1100 fps and a .45 acp that goes 800-850 fps? Doesn't that change the game a little bit?