Help me pick a rifle for subsonic suppressed project

[db_tanker]

There has been several mentions of the Whisper and the 45-70...

You can get both of these no problem in a Thompson Center Contender...yeah they are single-loaders...I don't really look at it as a detraction, though.

Shot a friends 14" 300-221 (300 Whisper) loaded to subsonic velocities and didn't even need earplugs. He had a hard time dealing with the slightly higher cost of the 200 gr VLD bullets so used some 190 gr. hunting bullets and they worked just as good...he kept his starting charge the same he said.

You can also go with an Encore pistol/rifle so that you have access to the heavier rifle calibers, as well.

MTCW
D

 

[beerslurpy]

only1asterisk, it is possible to select "marginally stable" bullets for subsonic use, but I would rather give up some wounding than risk baffle strikes.

 

[only1asterisk]

Lots of 300 Whispers out there shooting the heavier match bullets that can only be described as barely stable. If you know that you are going to using this kind of load you can factor it in to the suppressor selection process.

The REALLY long bullets can have a bit of wobble to them even when propelled from a fast twist barrel at rifle velocities. It's something that should be taken into account when the baffles are sized and the suppressor manufacturers can tell you if any of their models might have a problem.


David

 

[dfaugh]

Well, since I can't legally own one where I live, I'll speak from a couple observations, and some stuff I've read...to be really quiet you want a bolt action...I've shot subsonic Marlin 60 .22 (target and other) loads in my .22s and the noise from the report, is overcome by the noise of the action. Ditto some subsonic 9mm in my Hi-Point carbine, and .45 in my buddies Thompson. I think all are essentially "blowback" designs, and the gas escaping from the action is as loud as the report. In my bolt action .22, the subsonic rounds are much quieter.

As far as the design of the suppressor, there are a variety of designs. As someone mentioned, the early ones (like on the Delisle) worked along the lines of a car muffler, deflecting and slowing the gases. Effective, but big and bulky. Newer ones are much more effective, and use a variety of techniques (wipes, grease, etc.) and are much smaller. I think you could make or have some on make and "old style" suppressor fairly easily, if you didn't mind the size (which mught not be that large for a pistol round like a .45.

Just some rambling thoughts.

 

[MechAg94]

On aerodynamics, I am no expert, but I remember seeing something on shapes. I think the sharp pointed shape is best for supersonic, but a more blunt nozed shape is most efficient for subsonic. You can look at the differences in subsonic pasenger jets verus supersonic jets like the Concord or fighters. I am not sure about the "aerodynamics don't matter" comment, but it is certainly different.

For myself, I have just thought about a nice suppressed rifle in .22 LR for plinking or playing around. I have seen advertisements in Shotgun News for suppressed 10/22 and pistols. Down the road though.

 

[mp510]

There is a Mauser option for this project as well.

Back when FAC was in business, they used to sell a kit for conveting the 98 to .45 ACP. It cost $169 and consisted of a .45 ACP barrel, and mag adapter to use 1911 Mags (you ever see the 15 Round single stacks?). The big problem is that you would need to thread the muzzle and get a suppressor of apprpriate diameter.

 

[Brian Williams]

An old Charles Daly/ new Remington Mini Mauser with a 22-250 bolt would work for a base for a 45 bolt action, get a barrel with an intergral can and have it fitted, what a hooot. You might have to have a block fitted to the magwell and figure some way to shorten the follower plate and spring. Do a search here for Tamara's Turk mausr in 300 whisper. Sweet.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=32322&highlight=turk+300+whisper

 

[ambidextrous1]

The Mech-Tec CCU for the Gov't Model is a reliavle shooter and the untapered short barrel seems to be begging for a suppressor.

Noise from the action of a semi-auto can be eliminated by holding the action closed. The 10-22 can be fired with the third finger while the index finger holds the weapon in battery. If you try this with more powerful ammo, you're on your own; be careful.

 

[taliv]

here's a picture of one of my suppressor projects. that's me in one of oleg's t-shirts that says "cars have mufflers. so should rifles." holding an HK USC/UMP conversion SBR. .45acp with grease gun mags.




with the eotech style optic, it's not exactly a precision rifle, but it's phenomenally easy to shoot. i take new shooters to the range almost every time i go, and after 2 or 3 shots, people who've never shot a gun before are thwacking coke cans at 50 yards every time. it's almost too easy.


my other project is an AR with a fisher ent M4DC can. with the ceiner 22 conversion, it's pretty sweet.

the HK conversion above is pretty pricy these days, but you can still buy the unconverted ones if you look around. they look like this, and are fantastic guns.

 

[BrennanKG]

Taliv,

Is the USC to UMP(ish) conversion still being done?

I have a USC but living in CA I've never legally had the option.
Now that I'm moving, I'd LOVE to get my USC worked over.

Any info about avenues for this would be appreciated.

Thanks,
B.

 

[TC66]

300 Whisper is probably the best option for a suppressed rifle. Do it in an AR body no changes to magizines or bolt. Just a new barrel and forming some .223 brass. Round is subsonic but due to it's weight it still has a bunch of punch left after 200 yards.

 

[taliv]

brennan, mine was done by hdps.org (homeland defense and police supply) in FL. edwardo is the guy to talk to. i'm extremely pleased with everything about the gun. no complaints whatsoever. and i shoot a lot. no feeding issues, or cycling issues or anything.

when i got mine done, it was like, $1800 and he supplied the USC. (and sent the extra USC parts like the grey stock, etc) now, i think he wants something absurd like $3600

also, according to his website, he's not selling the ones with grease gun conversions anymore. he still has auctions on gunbroker (search "hk usc") but they appear to be using the HK magazines.

 

[cola8d8]

44

Here is my Ruger 77/44. I shoot 300 grain bullets at around 1000 FPS, quiet as a pellet gun. It was built by Tom Denall in Bend OR, I think he does a great job.

http://members.cox.net/cola8d8/guns.htm

 

[gezzer]

Another vote for the Ruger 77/44 intregal! They are sweet!!!!!

 

[beerslurpy]

Also no longer in production, priced through the roof. For those behind the times, the current weapons are no longer in production:
45 camp carbine
ruger 77/44
ruger 96/44
They now cost several times their original list prices due to lack of supply.

The following weapons are probably available but of dubious suitability:
kel-tec sub2000 (no 45 cal)
mech-tech ccu for 1911 (never seen it tried before, unknown quality of kit)
valkyrie arms delisle carbines (unknown price, unknown availability)
rhineland arms enfield 45 kit (cheap and works but not currently available, backordered several months)
beretta storm (unknown feasibility due to bullpup design, high price)

 

[Gordon]

I think I see a use for my 788 Remington .44 mag

 

[Dionysusigma]

My ideal subsonic round would be a 1oz 12 ga shotgun slug. I would be getting a can for a remington bolt action slug gun except for the little problem of shotguns having wads to strike the baffles. Pistol rounds are the medicine when you want subsonic. Big and slow is the name of the game for quiet.

Are slugs subsonic?

 

[beerslurpy]

S&B ones are I beleive.

 

[Dionysusigma]

So would it even be feasible to have a suppressed shotgun? Wads hitting the baffles, much less the shot itself (if you didn't use slugs)...

I'd hate to think of what a Dragon's Breath would do to a can...

 

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

Brian beat me to it. Tamara's Turk Mauser project was sweet.

An acquaintance of mine who was once a manufacturer built a terrific Marlin Camp Carbine .45 series with a suppressed barrel. The only two sounds you heard were the bolt slap (rectified with a little Sorbothane and superglue) and the 230 grain RN hitting the target butt.

The local constabulary used it for a dog/sentry remover.
Regards,
Rabbit.

 

[beerslurpy]

No, suppressed shotguns work by having an uninterrupted tube with lots of holes to let out the gas into a sealed chamber. This prevents baffle strikes but it also channels the sound energy down the swiss-cheese barrel. As a result, it isnt as efficient as the traditional k-baffle design by a long shot. Large, heavy and loud.

I would love to do a camp carbine but finding one for less than 600 bucks is hard these days.

 

[dfaugh]

Noise from the action of a semi-auto can be eliminated by holding the action closed. The 10-22 can be fired with the third finger while the index finger holds the weapon in battery. If you try this with more powerful ammo, you're on your own; be careful.

Tried it, with subsonic ammo....hurt alot, and didn't work

 

[444]

"As someone mentioned, the early ones (like on the Delisle) worked along the lines of a car muffler, deflecting and slowing the gases. Effective, but big and bulky. Newer ones are much more effective, and use a variety of techniques (wipes, grease, etc.) and are much smaller."
Actually, the internals of the DeLisle suppressor look very much like a suppressor you would buy today. Suppressors with wipes are old school designs.
An interesting side note: I read an article a couple years ago in The Small Arms Review where the author found a one of a kind handgun that was built around a Maxim suppressor back around the turn of the 20th Century. The gun was owned by a slaughter house in Texas and has been used on a daily basis for right around 100 years. They gave an estimate of the rounds that this gun and suppressor had fired and it was way over 100,000 rounds. This suppressor was in service for years before the 1934 NFA, but when the NFA was enacted, they registered it. The author of the article tested this approx. 100 year old original Maxim suppressor using modern methods and compared it to present day, state of the art suppressors. That 100 year old can with 100k+ rounds through it easily held it's own against anything made today.

"here's a picture of one of my suppressor projects"
Where is the suppressor ?

"Brian beat me to it. Tamara's Turk Mauser project was sweet."
Did she ever give any details on it ? I remember when she had it built: I exchanged a few PMs with her. I even called the gunsmith that built it and talked to him about building me one since I also had a Turk Mauser that wouldn't headspace. But, the last I heard she didn't have a suppressor for it and I never heard how it shot or if the action functioned correctly with the .300 Whisper cartridge.

One point that really needs to be kept in mind (if anyone is really serious about doing this) is that doing extensive modifications to the rifle to permit feeding etc. is expensive and/or a lot of work. One of the beauties of the .300 Whisper is that it will work fine in a rifle originally designed to fire the .223 Remington cartridge. The magazine will work, the bolt face will work etc.

 

[Jonathan]

45-70 for the win.

 

[444]

That's exactly what I had in mind.
So give us some details instead of pictures. What loads are you shooting ? What suppressor are you using ? Are you satisfied with the report ? What about accuracy ? How long is the barrel without the can ? Are you able to shoot full bore .45/70 loads through the can ?