Help me pick my first centerfire rifle!

[Zeede]

I'll be going to my first gun show this weekend, and while I don't plan on picking anything up, I do want to shoulder a few rifles to see how they fit. Here's some of the things I'm looking for:

1) Reliability. I'd like to pass this rifle on later, or at least take my daughter shooting when she's twelve. Which is another 11+ years.
2) Accuracy. No, it doesn't have to be sub-MOA, but I don't want to be embarassed at the range with it either. 1 MOA is probably a good ballpark, or 2 MOA.
3) Ease of cleaning. I am horrible at this sort of stuff, but I do want to keep my firearms cleaned and lubbed.
4) Cost. I cannot afford something in the four digits, so it needs to be $1k or less.
5) Legal in California. Yes, I heard the collective groan from all of you, but please bear with me.
6) .223 caliber. I'm not hard and fast on this caliber, but I want a centerfire rifle round (not a pistol round) that is relatively cheap and low recoil.
7) Semi-auto preferred.
8) Options other than an AR are greatly preferred. I have nothing against the platform, I think it's awesome, but the only stocks legal here in California are horrid.

I own a CZ 452 FS for all of the reasons above. It's reliable, easy to clean, wonderfully accurate, was a good value, and was chambered in .22LR, so I can afford to shoot it alot and I don't wear out my ears or shoulder.

Thanks all!

Cameron

 

[AZ Jeff]

You have some mutually exclusive requirements listed:

1. semi-auto, CA legal
2. 1-2 MOA accuracy

There are no self-loaders that will regularly turn in 1-2MOA consistently other than an AR-15 or clone. Those, of course, are problematic in CA.

What's more important? semi-auto or 1 MOA?

 

[fletcher]

I don't know about accuracy, but what about a Saiga .223?

 

[Zeede]

Hmm, what about 4 MOA and self-loading?

The main problem w/ going the AR route in California is the stocks. I refuse to have a fixed mag, and that means I need to use either the Monsterman grip or this other weird one. I'm not too keen on either stock.

Cameron

 

[lionking]

Mini14?Saiga?M1 carbine?Bolt actions and lever actions are easy to clean.

Im not fully versed on the laws of California so Im not sure just what is legal or not,I only know the laws are oppressive.

 

[cdrt]

My FFL buddy in California commented the other day, that the only legal semi-auto rifle that you can still buy in .223, is the Ruger Mini-14. You probably won't get the accuracy you're after, but that may be your only option.

I'll check with him and see if there's any other's that aren't on the banned list for the PRC.

 

[cdrt]

I sent an email to my friend in California. He sent the following:
"The Carbon 15 by Bushmaster is CA legal and so is the Mini-14. There may be others."

 

[JesseL]

My FFL buddy in California commented the other day, that the only legal semi-auto rifle that you can still buy in .223, is the Ruger Mini-14. You probably won't get the accuracy you're after, but that may be your only option.

I'm pretty sure the Kel-Tec SU-16 in a few of its variations is still legal in CA.

 

[MarkL]

Being a CA resident, I also wanted an AR, but didn't want to spend money on a CA neutered version. I picked up a Kel-tec SU-16CA for a decent price. It's similar to an AR, uses AR magazines and has been very reliable. It's a fun rifle to plink with and I would say it is around a 2MOA carbine on a good day. Cleaning is not difficult, once you get the hang of taking it apart.

Oh, it also has a built in picatinny rail so you can easily mount red-dots or scopes on it.

 

[glockman19]

Get a new Mini-14 it will gove teh MOA you're looking for, is chambered in the .223, is durable as it is a ranch rifle, cost @ Turners Outdoorsman $699, I Got the Synthetic stock, (won't warp like wood), with Stailess barrel, (it looks nice), and is within your budget. Also is on the HR1022 list so you might want to get one now before you can't, has detachible 10 round magazines and can be customized with many accessories. 6.75 lbs.
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=5802&return=Y

If you are looking to buy a light weight riflel for hunting?, I went with a Remington 700 CDL in .30-06. It meets your price range is chambered in a larger round but doesn't have alot of recoil. It's a classic A-Bolt hunting rifle and is what sniper rifles are based on. You can't go wrong here either. Ammo is more expensive but it will give greater accuracy and is acurate for longer distances. 7.5 lbs. Can be bought for $700
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/model_700_CDL.asp

 

[Kaylee]

Personally, I'd go with a CZ 527. (especially since you like your 452)

It should have all the accuracy you're looking for, it's light and easy to handle, and most of all has the durability you mention. I don't know as I'd expect a KelTec to keep chugging twenty years from now, and probably will be cheaper than getting a Mini to the level of accuracy you want.

Now it is a bolt action, but given that you're limited to 10 rounds anyway I don't know as you're losing much by giving up on the semi-auto.

That said, if you're really interested in a semi you might well want to get that first if you're planning on staying in CA. In your place, I'd go for an M1A/M14 clone rather than a Mini, but to each their own.

-K

 

[stiletto raggio]

Another vote for the Kel-Tec. I live in a free state and I'm still getting one.

 

[mustanger98]

As a Mini-14 owner, I recommend one. Not a new one though... the sights are pathetic. I bought mine new right before the Y2K presidential election when many of us feared Al Gore would be elected. Once you get used to the sight system, it's really quite accurate. Others have horror stories of bad mags and bad accuracy, but I haven't had any problems with mine. One thing you have to realize is that the front sight is probably good for 4MOA's worth of windage. That could be why some guys don't like 'em. But for stand-up shooting, you know how that goes from your other thread about shooting your CZ 452 from standing offhand... 4MOA is 1" at 25yds, remember...

...which brings me to the sight-in... set up at 25yds and it'll be like shooting the old "thousand inch range" for military type sight-in for a 200yd or 225yd battlesight zero.

 

[CZ223]

I don't know the laws in California

but the AR-15 is the only semi-auto platform I know of that will turn in sub MOA accuracy regularly. If there is a stock that will allow it to be Cali legal, bite the bullet, and get one. The old Ruger Mini 14s were cool looking guns but were never accurate enough for my tastes, I think that has all changed. If I couldn't own an AR I think that the new Mini-14 Target would be my first choice. I don't particularly care for the way they look but it might be your best bet for accuracy. The only other rifle that might work, as far as I am concerned, is the Saiga. I don't own one yet but I have heard too much good about them to ignore it. By most accounts, it should be around a 1.5 to 2 MOA performer. At under $300 I think this might be a good place to start. By all accounts they are very well made and fun to shoot. If you can own one of these you should be very tempted, I know I am. Last but not least, if you decide to go with a bolt action, try a Savage model 12 Bvss or VLP, you will get exceptional accuracy well beyond your expectations at a bargain price. By the way, the CZ in CZ223 are my initials and I don't currently own any CZ products, yet.

 

[epijunkie67]

You said you weren't hard and fast on .223. Is the SKS legal in CA? It's very sturdy, semi-auto, centerfire, cheap, and fires an effective caliber. Accuracy depends on the rifle but many are easily 2MOA.

Next on the list would indeed be the SU16 california model. I one one of the first ones made (nn-CA model) and it's a great gun and fills all of your requirements.


If you're willing to forgo the semi-auto feature you could get one of the pump action .223s. They would fill all your qulifications except the the semi-auto one.

 

[glockman19]

You can own a CA legal AR-15. I'm picking mine up tomorrow. Stag fixed stock, muzzle break, monsterman grip and I can still use my detachable 20 & 30 round pre-ban mags. or I can reconfigure with pistol grip and fixed 10 round mag with prince 50 kit. Both configurations CA legal. 20" barrel

I'l be ordering another complete Stag rifle with a different upper same M2 lower. this one will ahve shorter molly chrome barrrel and sport a Eotech.

 

[chris in va]

A CZ fits all those requirements except the semi-auto part.

I simply can't shoot my 527 carbine enough. 7.62x39 is still cheap enough to plink with, so is .223.

I'd love to get a Saiga though.

 

[Zeede]

Hmm, I guess the Bushmaster Carbon 15 would be do-able. Too bad it's only sold as a whole rifle, as I'm guessing there are more accurate uppers to be had.

Cameron

 

[Essex County]

Forget the Semi-Auto requirement. Go for a bolt gun in .260 or 7-08. You will be happy.............Essex

 

[mustanger98]

Go for a bolt gun in .260 or 7-08. You will be happy.............Essex

Those are deer/varmint type loadings and they cost more to shoot.

Zeede, if you want a .223, get a .223. I have one... Mini-14... and I like it. I also know I like my Savage Model 11GL (Hunter Series). Mine's in .243Winchester, but it's available in .243 and .308 too.

 

[Zeede]

I shouldered a Kel-Tec SU-16 today at the gun show. It actually fits me really well. Very comfortable and fast to the shoulder, easy cheek weld, no hunching of my shoulders or arms, and a comfortable length of pull. Too bad I can't get over how much it feels like a toy. All that plastic, sorry polymer, just makes me wonder how durable/reliable it will be in the long run. I guess I'm an old fashioned wood-and-blued-steel kind of guy.

By contrast they had three different Saigas. I don't like how they feel, great prices though.

Cameron

 

[Clipper]

The cheapest centerfire to shoot is the 7.62X54r...the Dragunov-type rifles are probably not legal in CA, but the M-N is, (a bit more recoil, but still not a biggie if you drop a 91/30 into an ATI stock) and it's so cheap you can still buy a semi in a higher price round for more 'serious' shooting if you want.

 

[aubie515]

My FFL buddy in California commented the other day, that the only legal semi-auto rifle that you can still buy in .223, is the Ruger Mini-14. You probably won't get the accuracy you're after, but that may be your only option.


Your friend might be an FFL holder, but he doesn't know what he is talking about when it comes to this matter. There are folks in CA that own M1As and M1 Garands and last time I checked they were semi auto.

I've seen CA residents own AR15,s but they had to have a funky looking grip compared to the regular pistol grip in order to comply with CA's wacky laws. I believe if you have the funky grip that will allow the person to have a detachable magazine. I could be wrong, but that's what I've been seeing in CA compliant ARs.

I'd just go with a great bolt action rifle. Randy aka HateCA makes some awesome rifles. He did work on my Remington 5R. He is very respected on SH and you can find plenty of recommendations from past customers.

http://rdprecision.net/

 

[Anteater1717]

What about a Remington 7615? Not a semi-auto but it has great reliability and accuracy. It’s a .223. It takes AR-15 magazines. Also a pump action is almost as fast as a semi-auto.

"My FFL buddy in California commented the other day, that the only legal semi-auto rifle that you can still buy in .223, is the Ruger Mini-14. You probably won't get the accuracy you're after, but that may be your only option."
aubie515

Not True

 

[Zeede]

How's the accuracy, out of the box, of those Remingtons? For manual action, I know that I prefer a bolt action over a lever action. I have nothing against lever action rifles, some are marvelously made, but when it's my own money and my own rifle, I just like bolt actions.

Cameron