Help me pick one of two AR's

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by innerpiece, Sep 15, 2008.

?

Pick one AR for me

Poll closed Oct 5, 2008.
  1. Panther 5.56NATO Sportical

    46 vote(s)
    68.7%
  2. Panther Lo-Pro Classic

    21 vote(s)
    31.3%
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  1. sarduy

    sarduy Member

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    If you want a varmint/target AR you may want to get the Lo-Pro Classic, because it use a heavy barrel (not that heavy it's only 16'' not a 24'') and a A2 stock (good for target/varmint shooting)

    If you want a HD rifle you may want to go with the Sportical rifle because it use a lighter barrel and a adjustable stock and it's easy to handle and make it shorter

    If...you want a rifle that can work for both "varmint/HD" get the Lo-Pro Classic, it's easier to change the stock than the barrel ;)


    Edit:

    you can have the best of both worlds....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2008
  2. twofourthree73

    twofourthree73 Member

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    Of those two, get the sportical. The difference in accuracy vs a bull barrel is going to be minimal. The lighter weight and adjustable stock will make it much handier and easier to shoot off hand. Most other specs are similar.

    I won't go into any more since you don't want that. It would be a repeat of what others have said already.
     
  3. JonB

    JonB Member

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    Depends on the varmint you are hunting. For prairie dogs, I'd go with the bull barrel as it will (in theory) dissipate heat better if you shoot a lot in a short period of time. Who really cares if it is lighter if your carrying time equates to the total of house to car, car to range bench, etc.

    I didn't read that you would be packing the rifle all over the place. However, if your varmint hunting includes coyotes, then lighter might be better. Are onces going to matter in a HD situation? Seriously doubt it.

    Ignore the chart - except the warranty column.

    Despite what some of the AR snobs here say, DPMS does make a good product. It may not stack up on 'the chart', but again, who cares? The chart is based on closeness to milspec and unless you are going to the sandbox and for some strange reason need to provide your own rifle, you can ignore it.

    I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying ignore the silly chart, but again I don't care. Just because someone on the internet said it, doesn't make it 100% the truth.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  4. Omaha-BeenGlockin

    Omaha-BeenGlockin Member

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    Neither--not because of the brand---because of the lack of sights.
     
  5. Tarvis

    Tarvis Member

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    Varmint hunting and HD are about as close together as bungee jumping and a watermelon eating contest. I was going to pick the "sportical" until I saw varmint, then I picked the other one. No point in having a light rifle if you are not shooting unsupported, even more so when you need to spot your own shots.

    You could blame the THR community for not giving you advice that is within your parameters, our you could thank them for trying to steer you towards a choice that you may be happier with or that may last longer. In either case, I say buy the one you want and either learn from it when it is un-satisfying or love it because it's perfect for you.
     
  6. innerpiece

    innerpiece Member

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    Thank to everyone!
    I appreciate all the input.
    this is why a guy keeps comin back to THR!

    thanks for the pics sarduy, they get me all fuzzy :)

    as always, I welcome more input.

    thanks again!
    ip.
     
  7. innerpiece

    innerpiece Member

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    Tarvis, this isnt/wont be my primary HD weapon, I have a few other firearms.
    But I also believe "grab whats closest" hence my reason for mentioning HD.
    this isnt my first gun, nor will it be my last. I look foreward to discussing Higher-end AR's in the future.

    thanks, ip.
     
  8. strat81

    strat81 Member

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    As I mentioned, get the Sportical. Get some decent sights. I have Brownells sights on my Stag and I like them. YHM makes some good, inexpensive ones too. The sky is the limit (as always).

    I'll say the weakest link on any DPMS is the bolt and carrier. The Sportical also lacks a chrome lined barrel and chamber. This helps with cleaning, longevity, and extraction.

    Stake the carrier key properly and buy a spare bolt from Bravo Company. At the very least, get the BravoCo extractor upgrade kit.

    Other than that, keep it clean and you shouldn't have problems.

    Don't let "The Chart" get you down. Many items are non-issues and the bolt issues are remedies with the BravoCo bolt.

    I am fine with 4140 (non-milspec) barrel steel since it's not a full auto gun. I have never seen an AR15 barrel that flat-out failed because it was 4140 and not 4150 (milspec).

    That said, don't try to turn the Sportical into something it's not. That is, don't put a $1,000 US Optics scope on it and expect to shoot 1/2" groups at 300 yards. It should be capable of 2"-3" groups at 100 yards with off the shelf brass cased ammo and a decent shooter.

    Use the DPMS to learn the platform. Once you know what you like and what you think you want, THEN you can build your uber-gun. For plinking at the range, the stock Sportical is fine. For bedside duty, I'd change the bolt and stake the carrier key.

    Don't become one of those "Oh teh noes! Your gunz is garbage because it has no parkerizings under teh sight bases!"
     
  9. RockyMtnTactical

    RockyMtnTactical Member

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    For the record, my brother regularly hunts varmints with his superlight AR15's. They are great HD weapons too.

    coyotecallin15.jpg
     
  10. innerpiece

    innerpiece Member

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    RMT, strat81, Thank you!

    strat81, do you think that would be the best accuracy I could get out of the Sportical?
    are 2-3 inch groups Avg/decent for this kind of rifle at 100yds?
    think the classic would be significantly more accurate?
    Alot of my varmint shots will be between 100-200yds..

    I appreciate all the input folks!

    Thanks, ip.
     
  11. strat81

    strat81 Member

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    IMO, a run of the mill AR in an M4, HBAR, or A2 setup will shoot 2"-3" @100 yards with decent ammo and a decent shooter. Groups will shrink slightly with match-grade ammo. This applies to common ARs from DPMS, Bushmaster, Armalite, Stag, RRA, etc. The sights and trigger will limit you, as well as the barrel.

    Free-float the barrel and do some trigger work and you'll get a little closer. Better sights (such as National Match) or optics will help.

    Then you can look at better barrels such as those from WOA. A bull barrel can also help as will a better trigger. A replacement trigger will run about $100-$300.

    The trade off to most of this is weight. A 20" or 24" varmint rig with a killer barrel, smooth trigger, and good glass is definitely capable of 1/2" groups at 100 yards, but it's not something you'll want to carry around the woods or in your house when something goes bump.

    IMO, the Classic will not be much better than the Sportical unless you start in with mods like the trigger, floating the barrel, reloading (or spending $1-$2/round on ammo), etc. Again IMO, practical accuracy will be almost the same. The added bulk is not worth it.
     
  12. innerpiece

    innerpiece Member

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    awesome, thank you so much!

    pretty shure Ive made my choice, and hopefully Ill have a range report up in a week or so with the Sportical!

    again, thank you to everybody for all the time and input, I appreciate the help!

    ip.
     
  13. slow944

    slow944 Member

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    I just bought one of the Sportical's. They're a great gun for the money. I put a red dot sight on mine and it's worked out well so far. I don't see a problem with either, but I picked the Sportical because it had everything I wanted on an AR with out haveing to spend more money. I really like the collapsable stock better than the full stock. Pick one up you'll be glad you did.
     
  14. HGUNHNTR

    HGUNHNTR Member

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    Hey Congrats the Sporticals are very nice.
     
  15. longdayjake

    longdayjake Member

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    Gotta love the chart

    I love that chart. It comes up every time there is a question of AR quality. Almost none of it is accurate or unbiased yet someone thinks its still somehow useful.
     
  16. Timradcliffe345

    Timradcliffe345 member

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    What exactly is unaccurate with the chart? :banghead:
     
  17. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    The chart was originally posted over at M4 Carbine.net http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642. I've quoted the opening of the thread for reference.

    If, after reading the entire first post in the thread linked above (and viewing the most current chart on the last page of that thread), you still feel something on it is biased or inaccurate please contact Rob_S. He's a member here using the same screen name, so a PM on THR works just fine. The chart is not relevant for judging the suitability of varmint, national match, or other specialized AR-15 variants. It is very useful, in the context of the original post on m4carbine.net, as a quick reference for evaluating the quality and suitability of M4 style AR-15 carbines intended for defensive use. Basics of build quality like properly staked carrier keys are essential on any AR for any intended use. Again, if you disagree with something provide evidence, and Rob_S will make it right.
     
  18. wcwhitey

    wcwhitey Member

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    I have the Panther Low Pro Classic. Free floated it with a Hogue kit ($45 at the time) a bipod, 2X10 Mildot scope and BUIS. Basically I set it up as a DMR, perfect for that role. I would not hesitate to take it varmint hunting. Gun will hold it's own no problem it has been exceptionally accurate and reliable. For your stated purposes it will do great. DPMS is underrated in my book, I would buy another in an instant.
     
  19. modifiedbrowning

    modifiedbrowning Member

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    In a perfect world. Unfortunately, this is the intrawebs. I would go for the Sportical myself, not some rifle that you never mentioned. Enjoy your new AR.
     
  20. TBC122

    TBC122 Member

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    I know this is not something you had listed, but why not also take a look a CMMG. They make some good rifles, and at the same time, not too over priced. However, go with a standard a3 M4 type carbine from DPMS with the front sight post, and then see about having it free floated. THat will cover all the bases along with a decent mid range scope. Be sure though, you get a backup iron sight.
     
  21. strat81

    strat81 Member

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    And therein lies the problem. The chart gets posted in almost every AR thread.

    Want a retro AR? Post the chart!
    Want a varmint gun? Post the chart!
    Want a match AR? Post the chart!
    Want a cheap plinker for use on Sunday afternoon? Post the chart!

    Does it matter that the chart does not represent those guns? Of course not! Why would ANYONE want an AR that's not a 6920? Crazy talk!!

    Of course, even if someone does want an M4 clone, when the chart does get posted, Colt lovers bash LMT because they don't parkerize the barrel under the FSB and LMT lovers bash Colt because of the non-standard takedown pins. And the Stag guy will chime in that the M16 carriers in the Colt and LMT are "highly illegal" (they're not).
     
  22. Timradcliffe345

    Timradcliffe345 member

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    It is apparent the OP does not know much about the AR15 weapon system.

    If you don't have anyting constructive to add to the discussion don't comment..its that simple. :banghead:
     
  23. GearHead_1

    GearHead_1 Member

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    To whom? He may know far more about the two rifles he listed than you do at this point. You don't have to be handed the keys to a Ferrari to learn to drive fast cars. He's picked a place he wants to start and that's great. Maybe he'll learn that this wasn't the best choice, maybe he'll learn that he would do it again in a minute.

    So you're done now? You created a discussion within the OP's thread but did not add anything constructive to the OP's intended discussion. By your own definition you should not have commented. His discussion was an either/or discussion not a this or that or anything you want to recommend question. The OP started a thread with examples of his choices looking for recommendations on those choices. You can certainly start a thread with your chart and go on to belittle anyone who doesn't buy a rifle that doesn't best fit the criteria on the chart.

    I for one own several of the rifles listed on your chart. The best rifle for me isn't the one that has the most MilSpec traits. I think the OP absolutely made the right choice for him. I hope he enjoys it very much.
     
  24. innerpiece

    innerpiece Member

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    Thanks to all!

    do any of you have pics of either of these rifles? (LPClassic or Sportical).. or could owners of either let me know their experience with accuracy?!

    thanks, ip.
     
  25. innerpiece

    innerpiece Member

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    any takers?! pics PLEASE :)

    thanks folks, I really do appreciate ti.


    ip.
     
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