help, my sister wants to get a .25acp

[Diggers]

A couple of things.

First, the .25 FMJ will go 14 to 16 inches in gel tests? Humm not sure we can really say its worthless then if its passing the FBI standard.......sure there is better to be had but still.

Second the taser, while not a bad idea, still it takes skill and practice to use correctly AND it DOES NOT work on everyone.

I've seen video of training sessions where cops (not some methed up tweaker) are able to fight through the pain and attack the officer who shot the taser. Yeah these are unusual people but it can be done.

 

[jad0110]

Would she consider a Taser? It meets the requirements of "hurt, but not kill" and around $300.

IIRC, some jurisdictions consider the use of a tazer to be a form of lethal force, as there have been quite a few people killed by them. They are less lethal, not nonlethal. Not sure about NC, I've never looked into it.

---

To the OP, you've been pretty saturated with suggestions so far, so I won't list anymore. But I think you've got the right idea: When you go out, just do so with the idea of taking guns for a "test drive". No pressure to purchase. Get a feel for what she likes and what she doesn't. Then, you can give her guidance and some suggestions, but ultimately the decision must be hers. A gun is a lot like a pair of shoes; someone else can't tell you what you are gonna like.

---

Okay, I really don't want to drift this thread but ... I gotta stand with Gryffydd.

BHP FAN, would you want to use a small .38 Special revolver against somebody with a Sig P239 or an H&K USP? What about using a small .38 Special revolver against five big guys who are about to mug you with whatever weapons they might be carrying? If you could remain level-headed, you would have about one shot per mugger until after your 15-second reload.

Sure. I shoot J-Frame .38s FAR, FAR, FAR better than equivalent sized autos. My groups with a Kel-Tec or baby Glock are measured in feet, while they are measured in inches with my 642. But I usually carry a 2" 6-shot Model 15, as I shoot it better still. Better than my 1911 in fact. So for me, it is quality over quantity, though there is certainly nothing wrong with having more ammo. But it is not the only criteria in selecting a handgun for serious purposes, IMHO. Hitting the target is a biggie, and there are still plenty of us out there that do better with the "obsolete" wheel gun. If I were armed with a little compact auto, my only hope would be to hurtle enough lead towards the BG(s) that hopefully, eventually, said BG(s) might walk into a piece of it .

And I practice revolver reloads quite a bit. I can do a revolver reload as fast or nearly as fast as an auto reload. And if you don't practice, the auto reload can be flubbed pretty badly as well, such as fumbling and dropping the mag (it is kinda slippery, after all), or even trying to shove it in backwards in the heat of the moment. Heck, I've done that once, maybe twice with my 1911 just punching holes in paper!

Tying this back into the OP, the point is your sister's mindset and training will do a lot more to save her in a serious encounter than the platform she is carrying, assuming it functions reliably. As someone else said earlier, a 25 ACP is still many, many times better than "please don't hurt me". Taking the CCW class is a great place to start.

Drop me a PM sometime. I live in NC as well, so if you happen to be nearby and my schedule allows (December is pretty hectic for us all), maybe I can let your sister try out a few of my guns.

 

[rogertc1]

This one would be good...

 

[Blakenzy]

Similar discussion:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=466805

 

[KBintheSLC]

To the OP,

My wife has been very happy with the KelTec P32... enough power to do more than just hurt someone, but still mild on the recoil and very reliable. They run about $250

My groups with a Kel-Tec or baby Glock are measured in feet, while they are measured in inches with my 642.

Dude... nothing against the 642... I love em. But if you are shooting groups that measure in feet with a baby Glock at self defense ranges, your problem is not the gun. Even the KelTec is capable of sub 6" groups at 10 yards off hand.

 

[jad0110]

Dude... nothing against the 642... I love em. But if you are shooting groups that measure in feet with a baby Glock at self defense ranges, your problem is not the gun. Even the KelTec is capable of sub 6" groups at 10 yards off hand.

Oh, I agree it is me. Nothing wrong with either gun. And my statement did contain a bit of hyperbole, though my groups with guns like Kel-Tech P3ATs and Taurus PT 745s really do exceed a foot at 7 yds.

It's simply that neither one fits my hand well, at all. The KelTec P3AT/P32 in particular is just way too small for my hands (I am 6'7"). The palm of my hand is large enough that their is a pretty good amount of air space between my hand and the gun, no matter how tightly I try to squeeze, so I have a hard time holding onto the thing. Plus the I practically have to pull the trigger with the 2nd joint of my trigger finger .

OTH, the 642's grip frame is prominent enough that I can get a sufficient purchase on it. Actually, it feels pretty good with my stong hand pinky finger curled up under the butt of the gun. And it points pretty natually for me.

With the baby Glock, well, it aint quite a foot - more like 10" at 7 yds. I've never been able to shoot Glocks all that well; the ergos just don't agree with me. Don't care for the trigger much either. Nice gun and all, got a ton of respect for them, just not my cup of tea. I do okay with XDs though. Not great, but okay, as they do feel more natural to me.

 

[searcher451]

The fact that your sister is interested in guns and is willing to carry one is huge. Getting into a caliber war with her is, in my opinion, a mistake. Instead, help her to try out a variety of handguns invarious shapes and sizes and calibers and then select one that best fits her hand and eye. Pointing out that a .32 is better than a .25, and that a .380 is better than a .32, might be worthwhile in passing conversation-- but I'd spend more time helping her select a gun that she's comfortable with.

 

[Brian Dale]

How was the range trip, newgunmike?

 

[bad_aim_billy]

If she wants a .25, good for her. Anyone who says that a criminal will "laugh when they see it" has been watching too many Steven Seagal movies.

Wait, I forgot what site I'm on. Tell her that only a .454 will put fear into a bad guy.

 

[KBintheSLC]

If she wants a .25, good for her. Anyone who says that a criminal will "laugh when they see it" has been watching too many Steven Seagal movies.

Wait, I forgot what site I'm on. Tell her that only a .454 will put fear into a bad guy.

I agree. Even though a 25 acp is the bottom of the barrel of defensive calibers, it will kill if placed properly. If she wants something that will merely hurt someone, she should get a can of mace and a taser.

 

[Confederate]

The best type of pistol, in my view, is a medium-frame revolver in .357. For carry, I'd use .38 +P; for home and travel, I'd go with .357 125gr JHP. If she lives in an apartment, I'd also go with .38 +P.

I'm also a big advocate of a good grade pepper spray like Cold Steel's Inferno, which works on man or beast and requires no permit. An inert can for practice certainly doesn't hurt, either.

My favorite house gun is a Ruger Speed-Six with a 3-inch barrel. It's a good carry gun, too.

 

[NMGonzo]

Lie to her.

Tell her that a .380 is going only to only hurt the attacker.

Hollow points are harmless; kittens and puppies will just be annoyed by them.

 

[SalchaketJoe]

IMO your sister should be educated and undergo a serious awakening attitude wise well before she carries a weapon.

 

[newgunmike]

well we went to the range and tried 6 different guns.3 auto's and 3 revolvers and the one she shot best and liked the most was the bersa thunder .380. not the smallest by a long shot but small enough to fit in her purse with ease. she now need to get her ccw permit but that shouldn't be a problem, she shot the .380 really well. i showed her how to use it and she caught on fast and with a little practice she could out shoot me.(which reminds me i need to go practice some more)

now i just need to make sure she understands what kind of ammo she needs to buy but i already bought here 100rds of jhp and 100rds of fmj and explained the differences to her and when she should use what.only problem is they only had 100rds of each so i didn't get any.

 

[jad0110]

100 rounds of each in .380 is pretty darned good these days.

The Bersa is a nice feeling little gun. I don't recall ever getting to shoot one, but I bet they would point pretty well in my hands. I thought about getting one, but figured I'd go for a CZ-82 since I now have my C&R license. Nice work guiding her to a gun that she actually enjoys shooting!

The CCW class will be another good step. If she needs more training, don't be shy to encourage her to seek it out.

 

[Brian Dale]

...the one she shot best and liked the most was the bersa thunder .380...{snip}...she shot the .380 really well.

As the wise man said, "Buy the one that you shoot the best."

Well done in getting her out to try several before choosing one. In fact, Well Done all around, Sir.

 

[Fremmer]

You're lucky she didn't shoot a Sig the best. I did, and now I'm stuck saving for the gun. I have the mags, just not the gun. Ug!

 

[TimM]

HOWEVER ---- for someone that may not take the time to get used to a semi-auto , the .38 snub-nose is a very good choice.

JMO, but I think a snub is the worst gun for a new shooter to purchase... especially someone that probably isn't going to shoot much. Don't get me wrong, I love my snubbies but they are extremely hard for a novice to shoot accurately.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

I recommend against the J-frame .38. I find this is a very common recommendation for first-time CCWing women with little firearms experience.

The reason you find so many of them used in good condition is because a ton of people had someone recommend them for a first-time gun and then shot it. Once.

The recoil is stout on all the lightweight ones. Accuracy takes a good deal of practice. If you MUST recommend a J-frame, get a steel one and use the full-size Hogue grips. New shooters will thank you for it.

 

[NMGonzo]

My vegetarian, liberal gf can hit the 6 and the 4 inch paddle @ 20 meters with the bersa.

 

[KBintheSLC]

My vegetarian, liberal gf can hit the 6 and the 4 inch paddle @ 20 meters with the bersa.

My heart goes out to you.

 

[daveinvegas]

Tell your sister to buy a Colt Defender. Show her how light the gun is and load it with Glaser SAFETY SLUGS.

Let's not forget what Col. Cooper told his female operatives during WWII about carrying .25 acp autos.

 

[Landric]

I'm glad to hear that the OP's sister selected something a little more potent than the .25 ACP. That said, while the .25 auto wouldn't be my first choice for self-defense, it is keeping with the rule of having a gun being the first rule of gunfighting. Most .25 pistols are small and light, though perhaps not as light as some of the current plastic pistols. Unlike the plastic guns in .380 ACP, a metal .25 auto is actually pleasant to shoot, and easily faster on shot to shot times. For a non-gun person who wants a small, light automatic, the .25 isn't the worst choice in the world, one just has to understand its limitations. Every gun is a trade off of some kind.

I couldn't carry a .25 if I wanted to, my department doesn't allow anything smaller than .380 ACP on or off-duty. However, while I actually enjoy burning off rounds in a .25, I can't say that I enjoy shooting my Airweight .38 Special at all. Being a "gun guy" I accept the unpleasant nature of the Airweight as the trade off for the size and weight. If I were someone just looking for an easy to carry handgun that wouldn't beat me up on the range, I'd probably find some of the various high quality .25 autos on the market (Beretta 950, PSA 25, etc.) pretty appealing.

 

[Dr.Mall Ninja]

Tell her to get a .357 because it's smaller than a .380."

that gave me a good laugh

My vegetarian, liberal gf can hit the 6 and the 4 inch paddle @ 20 meters with the bersa.

whoa liberal gf , thats scary i did the vegetarian thing, i could deal with that but liberal, thats a different story.

 

[T. Bracker]

The Ruger SP101 in .327 Federal might be a great choice. As mentioned, it will shoot any of the other .32 revolver rounds, some of which are quite mild as she works up to the full house .327 magnum rounds. Good thought.