Help neck sizing .223

[bachekermooni]

I read all I could here and else where and talked to the local reloading shop. I gave up on my Hornady neck sizer. Based on all considered, I went with the Redding type-S with bushing. My local reloading shop measured my Federal once-fired (in my rifle) and cleaned as heck by me and provided the proper neck bushing (Titanium Nitrite) diameter 0.247". He also removed the expander.

I came home like a kid back from candy store and got to work making 5 new shells with 24.2 gr of AA2230 topped with 50 gr Hornady V-Max COL 2.200" - getting my Ruger 77 MKII Target/Varmint ready for SD coyotes.

The problem? The case neck run out of around 1/1000", post cleaning, is 6-8 /1000 after resizing, and 8-10 /1000 at the base of the plastic bullet tip - after the shell is done I tossed the Hornady neck sizer for just such a problem and it was working the brass neck too hard. Neck lube? None other than Imperial Dry Neck Lube. The press is Hornady Lock-N-Load.

When loading the same brass, same bullet, and same press with my Hornady Full-length die, the bullet runout is a max of 2/1000

HELP ... PLEASE.

 

[918v]

Your runout is normal. I saw the same thing. I did an experiment: Sizing the neck down no more than .003" did not affect runout. Sizing the neck .008" produced significant runout at the neck, more at the bullet tip. Drawing a case neck through a die causes alot of stress.

So I tried the Lee collet neck die. Sizing the neck the same .008" produced insignificant runout, i.e. .003" at the bullet tip. Now I use a Lee collet neck die and a Redding body die, separating the sizing into two steps.

 

[243winxb]

Redding S die, is it Full length or neck size? How are you putting the bushing into the die, size stamp (.247"), up or down? Loose or tight? The bushing should float.

 

[918v]

In my experiment, I set up the bushing to float slightly and it did not matter if the stamp faced up or down.

 

[bachekermooni]

The bushing was tried both ways. The stamp is now up. Not floating. The label reads: "Redding Type S - Bushing Style Neck Sizing Die 71111". 243winxb, how much should the bushing float?

 

[243winxb]

Redding Type-S Bushing Die

Redding has said, stamp down to keep from tilting the bushing on sizing. Bushing must float as per directions, you should hear it rattle if you shake the die. A FL die will keep the case body from slooping around when the bushing does it sizing. Lube the outside of the case neck. Use no expanders, best with neck turned brass or boatail bullets.

 

[bachekermooni]

Thanks. I just read the instructions included with the die (oops). I will attempt and respond. I should have bought the FL die? But do not set shoulder back?

 

[243winxb]

I should have bought the FL die?

The Redding benchrest die has a sleeve that guides the brass while only neck sizing. This may make a difference, i do not know. Yes, control your shoulder set back when using a Fl sizing die. Redding has said, when sizing the fired case down more than .008" , to avoid runout, size using 2 bushing, in 2 steps. I do not check runout.

 

[918v]

I used two busings in two steps in their Competition Die and got the same runout. It's not about what die you use, but how much you size and how.

 

[bachekermooni]

OK. After watching the Vikings handing the game to Broncos, I tested the floating bushing requirement The neck runout went down to an average of 0.002". The bullet runout down to less than 0.004". I tried the expander to see if it makes a difference. It did not - expect making the bullet seat smoother.

I am hating my Fed cases. I am having a hard time with priming them - even after using a primer pocket reamer. My fired Win cases - even with no cleaning and no tumbling, just neck sizing, de-priming, and priming in one step, gave me 0.002" bullet run out I think I am dumping my 200 Fed cleaned and preped cases.

Thanks for your help everyone.

 

[918v]

Your brass must be from heaven.

 

[flashhole]

Don't know if you have ever taken a close look at how much play is in the die/press threads. When I adjust my sizing dies I lube a case and run it up into the die before I lock the die in the press. This helps axial alignment of the ram/case/die and usually pays big dividends on reducing runout. You can do the same with a neck size only die.

For 223 (and many other cartridges) I use a Lee Collet Neck Die. Excellent results and very low runout.

 

[bachekermooni]

Don't know if you have ever taken a close look at how much play is in the die/press threads. When I adjust my sizing dies I lube a case and run it up into the die before I lock the die in the press. This helps axial alignment of the ram/case/die and usually pays big dividends on reducing runout. You can do the same with a neck size only die.

For 223 (and many other cartridges) I use a Lee Collet Neck Die. Excellent results and very low runout.

I use the Hornady Lock-N-Load. I even changed the locking collar of the Redding to one of Hornady's. I dislike set screws on threads. Hornady locks the collar sideways - no direct pressure on threads. I will try your method next time. Somehow I think there has to be a better way to reload. My next goal, turning the neck. But I first need a tight-neck chamber - AKA a new barrel. Or perhaps I will spend that money on an AR.

 

[243winxb]

Squaring dies to the shell holder.

The RCBS news letter said to "square the dies with the shell holder when FL siizing." When they are in contact, you lock the die in. If you back the FL die out to control shoulder bump, use a shim between die & shell holder. The shim should cover the entire surface, don't use a feeler gauge. Don't forget to put a hole in the middle of the shim for the decapping pin.

 

[Clark]

243winxb
Squaring dies to the shell holder.
The RCBS news letter said to "square the dies with the shell holder when FL siizing." When they are in contact, you lock the die in. If you back the FL die out to control shoulder bump, use a shim between die & shell holder. The shim should cover the entire surface, don't use a feeler gauge. Don't forget to put a hole in the middle of the shim for the decapping pin.

Do they think that the dies will stay square with respect to the shell holder when not touching the shell holder, simply because the the die is locked to the press with an RCBS ring when the die was square with respect to the shell holder?
These kinds of tricks can work with hemispheric washers, maybe.

 

[243winxb]

Do they think that the dies will stay square with respect to the shell holder when not touching the shell holder, simply because the the die is locked to the press with an RCBS ring when the die was square with respect to the shell holder?

On sizing, the shell holder will not contact the die, till they make contact at the top of the stroke. Will the die move after its locked in? What do you think?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

So I tried the Lee collet neck die. Sizing the neck the same .008" produced insignificant runout, i.e. .003" at the bullet tip. Now I use a Lee collet neck die and a Redding body die, separating the sizing into two steps.

In my experience, the Lee collet die is the way to go. My sets include a regular sizing die for occasional full length resizing.

 

[bachekermooni]

Range report update

Took the rifle to the range to zero it in with the new load. Well, the first two shots made a small oval just to the right and slightly above POA. Scope adjustments and a few shots later, three shots went a 0.344" OD clover (group = 0.12" ) 1.5" above POA at 100 yards with a Nikon Prostaff 6-18x SF MilDot scope. It was a cool (19 F), sunny, calm day at the range. I think I hit the jackpot.

Hornady 50gr VMax + 24.2gr of AA2230 + Federal once fired brass (same rifle) + Redding Type S bushing neck sizer + Hornady Lock-N-Load press + used $600 Ruger MK II Varmint/Target + Boyd's Ross Featherweight TH stock fitted and glass bedded (with much pain) by yours truley + correctly aligned stars and planets = success.

Now all I need is for coyotes to show up and stand still while I take careful aim More on that next week when I get back.

 

[flashhole]

Congratulations, sounds like you have a winner. It will be interesting to see how it does in warm weather shooting. Hopefully it will not be too hot a load.

 

[bachekermooni]

Congratulations, sounds like you have a winner. It will be interesting to see how it does in warm weather shooting. Hopefully it will not be too hot a load.

Thanks. I went with 24.2gr which is 0.5 less than Accurate's data for max load. COL is 2.20" as per Hornady manual.

 

[amlevin]

Looks like some others have found that the Lee Collet die is a great "neck sizing" die if you want straight cases. Cases will also last longer as the brass is worked only once per neck sizing operation rather than first being sized "too small" and then expanded back to the desired size.

Of course there are those who adamantly believe that a $20 die just can't possibly do as good as a $50 die

 

[bachekermooni]

Looks like some others have found that the Lee Collet die is a great "neck sizing" die if you want straight cases. Cases will also last longer as the brass is worked only once per neck sizing operation rather than first being sized "too small" and then expanded back to the desired size.

Of course there are those who adamantly believe that a $20 die just can't possibly do as good as a $50 die

The idea behind using a die with a bushing specific to your brass is to squeeze it only once. Accoring to Redding manual, one should should measure the neck of a completed shell (with the bullet in it), then purchase a bushing that is only 0.001" smaller. That is what I did (with the help of the local realoding shop). I am not sure what you mean by $50. My die with the bushing and tax was around $75. I have not tried the Lee die and hence can not comment on it.

 

[popper]

bachekermooni - try priming with the case warmed up a bit(really warm to the touch), assuming your problem is PP too tight.