Help needed with Oly Arms chambering question

[chuft]

I am new to the gun hobby and till now have been relying on the advice of others locally already in the hobby. Now I am digging a little deeper trying to learn about things and ran into a safety question about my AR-15.

I am hoping someone out there is an expert on Olympic Arms AR-15s and can help me determine what mine is chambered for. I bought it barely used from someone who had 2 of them and after reading articles recently about .223 vs 5.56 chamberings, I am not sure whether it is safe to fire M855 or M193 5.56 in this gun, since it may be chambered in .223.

The articles I have read recently said Olympic Arms uppers made after 2001 should be chambered for 5.56. Unfortunately I don't know when this upper was made. The serial number on the lower is in a range that the Olympic Arms site says was made between 07/20/2001 and 04/03/2002, so I am not sure what to make of that.

The manual says "Owner's Manual for AR-15 CAR-15" (not sure if that means I have a CAR-15, or whether the same manual is used for more than one model of AR-15).

On the lower receiver it has three lines:
CAL. .223 5.56
MOD. P.C.R. 01
KX 8589

I e-mailed Olympic Arms with my question, describing everything it says on the lower, and asking whether it was chambered for .223 or 5.56. The response:

"We are out of 2004 catalogs.our 2005 should be available soon.Please use the web sight to view current Olympic arms products.thanks for your entrust in Olympic arms.[Name withheld to protect the guilty] Sales Rep"

Something tells me I won't be buying any more Oly Arms products.

I hope someone can help me. Otherwise I guess I will sell this gun and buy a new one from a more customer-friendly manufacturer, and find out exactly what I am getting to make sure I can get one that can shoot 5.56. When I bought my AR I had no idea there was such a thing as ARs that are not built to fire 5.56 ammo but only .223. Could be an expensive lesson but it is better than the gun blowing up or something when I use ammo it is not chambered for. I actually have a bunch of Lake City Federal 5.56 with the NATO stamp in my closet, I was saving it for special occasions since it is more expensive than than the Wolf I have been practicing with - maybe I am lucky I never tried to fire it.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Black Snowman]

The markings on the reciever won't tell you much. You need to see if you can find any markings on the barrel.

Even if chambered for match grade .223 ( IE very tight) it shouldn't be UNSAFE to fire 5.56 in it unless both the ammo and chamber are out of spec. The best way to be sure would be to get a chamber casting done by a gunsmith. This is usually relatively cheap, under $50.

Normally if it's marked as both, it will be the 5.56 chamber or an "intermediate" chamber that will be good for both but possibly not feed military 5.56 as well.


As an aside:

I've found Oly to be a very unresponsive company. I don't know how they or Vulcan manage to sell anything when they won't even respond to dealer inquiries. A couple local shops have tried to become dealers and were basicly blown off. No one in the whole KC metro carries their stuff. Not because they don't think it's a good value or they couldn't sell it but because Oly won't talk to them.

Vulcan responded with a catalog, but wouldn't give them any pricing information. How do these guys make any money? I can see poor customer service, but no SALES service? What can they possibly be thinking?

 

[Mike Hull]

IMO, a manufacturer would be insane to sell an AR type rifle that wouldn't shoot both military 5.56, AND civilian .223 safely.
It's just not the way things are done.

I've fired both military, and civilian ammo in semi auto's, and bolt guns for 30+ years without a problem.

The main thing is, military brass should be reduced in charge about 10% WHEN RELOADING, because their cases are thicker than civilian. That's all.

I've seen a lot of stuff here about 5.56, and 7.62, versus their civilian counterparts, that I've never seen before, anywhere, and it just doesn't add up.

Just don't shoot the lacquered ammo in your firearm, at least according to OlyArms website.

 

[George S.]

From the markings on the receiver:

CAL. .223 5.56

I would take that to mean that it should be chambered for .223 Remington and 5.56mm NATO.

Here's a link to the Oly Arms ammo warning page: http://www.olyarms.com/index2.php?page=ammowarning While it doesn't discuss specific rounds by type, it does show their recommendations on what and what not to use. They mention that Wolf and others may cause feeding issues and the Win imported ammo they show as not one to use (the Israeli-made Q3131A), is a military round.

You can always call them at (360) 459-7940. They're just down the street from me in Olympia, WA so the time would be Pacific Standard Time. Given the long weekend beginning tomorrow, they may not have people in the shop today.

 

[chuft]

I am not going to raise the lacquered debate here. I've read both sides of it in other threads and it doesn't pertain to my question.

The .223 vs 5.56 question is not just something I've read here, I've also read it here

http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm#diff

and here

http://www.saami.org/unsafe3.htm

From the Ammo Oracle site:

"Military M16s have slightly more headspace and have a longer throat area, compared to the SAAMI .223 chamber spec, which was originally designed for bolt-action rifles. Commercial SAAMI-specification .223 chambers have a much shorter throat or leade and less freebore than the military chamber. Shooting 5.56 Mil-Spec ammo in a SAAMI-specification chamber can increase pressure dramatically, up to an additional 15,000 psi or more."

"Olympic Arms marks their barrels with "556", with some additionally marked "SS" or "SUM." This marking is used on all barrels, even older barrels that used .223 chambers and current target models that also use .223 chambers. Non-target barrels made since 2001 should have 5.56 chambers."

From the SAAMI site:

"The firing of a cartridge or shell other than that for which the firearm is chambered can result in the cartridge or shell rupturing and releasing high pressure gas that can damage or destroy the firearm and kill or seriously injure the shooter and persons nearby."

"CENTERFIRE RIFLE

In Rifle Chambered For: - Do Not Use These Cartridges

223 Remington:

- 5.56mm Military
- 222 Remington
- 30 Carbine"

I am no expert, but I don't like the sound of this. And Olympic, after getting a detailed e-mail with all the information they needed to answer my question, blew me off.

 

[Gunnutz13]

My 2 cents...

I own a Olympic Arms Car97M4A2 with a SS barrel, chambered in 5.56nato. Oly uses the 5.56nato chamber in leiu of .223rem due to the looser tolerances of the military chamber. You can shoot 5.56 and .223 in a 5.56nato chamber, but if you look up the Saami specs...do not shoot 5.56 in a .223rem chamber. Hope this helps...

 

[chuft]

Oly uses the 5.56nato chamber in leiu of .223rem

They do now, but according to the web site above, they only started after 2001.

Since my gun made made between July 2001 and April 2002, I am not sure which chamber it has, which is why I wrote Olympic, and got blown off as an answer.

 

[chuft]

Priceless Customer Support E-mail From Olympic!

I just got this e-mail from Olympic, this time I am not omitting the name of the toolhead who sent it. This is just priceless. Enjoy.

{chuft},some time you should not be so judge mental ones option.If you were a real man you would not use a 556 cal weapon.all it is is a 22cal on steroids.If I were but in a real world situation,this would be my last choice.A 300 Wssm Would be hell of allot better choice in a long range shooting situation.165gr sst moving at 3250 fps,30cal.With enough hit to kill any thing with a pulse.Try 3753 fps of Knock down power.Your little girlyman shell only hits with1067 FPE.Wimp. 55gr bullet

Jared Balmer
Domestic Sales Rep.
Olympic Arms Inc.

 

[George S.]

Jeez!! That's about the strangest and worst response I think I have seen from a manufacturer. Dont use a 5.56/.223?? Then why do they make and sell them? And why does NATO use that round?

If Mr. Balmer worked for me, his butt would be bouncing off the asphalt on Pacific Highway right about now. That is absolutely no way to respond to any sort of question from a customer. Not to mention the 4th grade grammar and sentence structure....

FWIW, my Ruger Mini-14 chamber allows the firing of either the 5.56mm NATO round or the .223 Remington. This doesn't necessiarly make it a superior rifle to the OlyArms AR but at least I don't have to worry about what box of ammo I grab.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

chuft, I have not ever seen any instances where it was UNSAFE to shoot 5.56mm ammo in a .223 AR chamber. I have seen instances where it leads to malfunctions and parts breakage though.

I would recommend you just feed your rifle some 5.56mm and see how it likes it. I've always had good experiences with Oly, so you may not have anything to worry about.

 

[Mike Hull]

{chuft},some time you should not be so judge mental ones option.If you were a real man you would not use a 556 cal weapon.all it is is a 22cal on steroids.If I were but in a real world situation,this would be my last choice.A 300 Wssm Would be hell of allot better choice in a long range shooting situation.165gr sst moving at 3250 fps,30cal.With enough hit to kill any thing with a pulse.Try 3753 fps of Knock down power.Your little girlyman shell only hits with1067 FPE.Wimp. 55gr bullet

LMAO............!! Not at you, chuft, at the letter.

I would definitely see that a copy of that reached the president of OlyArms desk.
I have a feeling that some other employee was getting even with someone there they didn't like, by signing their name to your email reply.


Edited to add; My second thought is, your email got there right in the middle of their New Years party, and everyone was half in the bag.

Just a thought.