HELP! Novak 8-rng mags nosediving Hydra-shocks in my Pointman!

[richyoung]

...my sad story. I wasn't real impressed with the factory mag that came with the Dan Wesson Poinman Major - so I bought two Novak blued 8 round magazines with the removable floor plate. Both the factory mag and the Novaks nosdive Federal Hydrashock hollowpoints into the feedramp, tieing up the gun with the slide half-open. Gunsmith blames the mags, and suggests a barrel throat/feedramp polish, along with the trigger job I've already put it in the shop for,(...odd, I thought the Pointman was already threaoted, but - whatever. Has anyone else had a problem with Novak mags in a 1911 style pistol?

 

[clipse]

Have two Novak mags but they are the blued 7 rounders. I prefer the 7 rounders to the 8 rounders simply because. I have absolutely no problems with these mags in my Springer GI even with Hydrashoks.

clipse

 

[Old Fuff]

Your gun is throated, and the feed ramp is polished. Your gunsmith (?) is only trying to make a buck. Your problem is most likely caused by:

A weak magazine spring.

Improper extractor tension or fit

Magazine lips that don't release the cartridge at the right time.

We have a lot of background information on previous threads. Use the search feature and the key words, "1911" and "magazine"

 

[richyoung]

Thanks for the info - I just got off of the phone with a smith at Dan Wesson - he says, "The Pointman is ramped and throated, but only to feed ball ammo. If you want to shoot hollowpoints, additional work on the ramp and barrel is needed. Frequently, HP amo will hang on the very edge of the ramp, where there is a sharp ledge." Looks like my smith was telling me the truth - oh well - what's another $40 - he already had it to lighten the trigger pull, break the sharp edges on the barrel & slide recoil lugs, etc.

 

[Old Fuff]

Years ago when I as working in a sporting goods/gunshop we had a magazine that had been carefully set up. It wasn't one of the new "super-magazines" but a rather ordinary standard Colt Government Model one - or at least it started life that way.

When we were trying to sell a 1911 style pistol - anything from a Gold Cup to an unmodified surplus USGI pistol with a standard "hardball throat" we would insert this magazine and proceed to hand-cycle empty cases through whatever gun we were showing. As brass flew through the air the bug-eyed customer would usually grab for his wallet.

Now one might ask, "what was he practical aspect of all of this?" And the answer would be, "well it sold a lot of guns ... "

But anyway, regardless of what they might say, the frames and barrels that Dan Wesson and other makers are using today come from they're sub-contractors with reasonably polished ramps and fully throated barrels. What may be lacking is careful fitting of these and other parts when the pistol is (or was) assembled. Two things we didn't have to worry about in days gone past was MIM parts and sub-standard workmanship. This is part of the reason that the numerous complaints about feeding problems with 1911 style pistols usually involve current or recent production guns rather then those made during the 1980's and earlier. (Especially earlier).

The other part of the issue is that most hollow-point ammunition have shorter overall lengths then 230-grain ball. As a consequence the magazine lips hold on the the cartridge too long and don't let the base come up under the extractor soon enough. If the lips are still holding the cartridge's base when the nose hits the feed ramp the round will be kicked upward into a classic stovepipe jam. A week magazine spring - especially in an 8-round magazine - can also contribute toward, or cause the same condition.

I suggest that you spend the greater part of that $40.00 on a book - "The Colt .45 Automatic - A Shop Manual" by Jerry Kuhnhausen (available from www.gunbooks.com) and learn exactly how your gun works (or doesn't as the case may be) and why. Also use the search function on this forum to find the many detailed discussions on this forum covering the problem you are having. That at least is free.

 

[richyoung]

Thanks for the advice - I'll probably order the book next payday. The feed lips on the Novak magazine seem to be short enough - I'm thinking that the "feed ramp" part of the frame either wasn't polished all the way down, or the mag catch is letting the magazine "sag" too low. Hipefully, the smith will catch it no matter what.

 

[Agrippa]

My RIA come with a Novak 8 rounder, and I got a few more Mec-Gar 8rd. mags too. All of them chamber a round, but it feels "rough". I can't exactly explain it, but it sure feels that there is a lot more CRASH!-BOOM!-BANG! goin' on in that trip from the mag to the chamber. if I download to 7, or use my cheapo Midway 7rd. OEM mags, it is a smooth chamber.

I think the 1911 was just made for 7+1. YMMV.

 

[richyoung]

I bought the mags after reading that SIG, RAI, some Dan Wessons, and (of course) Novak use them. They SEEM well0-built - we'll see after I get the pistol back from John Axe - the smith it is at.

 

[Estela216]

simple fix = stretching the mag spring. should work fine.

 

[Old Fuff]

>> simple fix = stretching the mag spring. should work fine. <<

That may work in the short term, but the spring will soon take a set again. Since the owner of the pistol is having trouble with hollow-point cartridges I presume he intends to use his Dan Wesson as a weapon - at least part of the time. Given that, I don't think your "simple fix" is a good way to go.

I occasionally carry a .45 myself. But rest assured it is not one of the gadget-loaded guns they make today that are so often the object of threads like this one.

 

[richyoung]

BACK FROM THE SMITH - $130 worth of polishing, throating, new sear, respringing, stoning, stc., the gun has the absolute best trigger pull I have ever felt, and feeds flawlessly from Chip McCormick Power Mags and an unknown make 10 roung clip - but still refuses to feed from the Novaks. I went through my "junk box" and pulled out some range clunkers made up from the best left-over parts of gun show special mags of indeterminate origin...and two of them, plus the original Dan Wesson mag, now feed hollowpoint and ball ammo just fine, and activate th eslide stop. I've ordered 6 Power Mags from Midway - (Special $15.95 until 2/28), and put the Novaks up on the for sale forum. Smith thinks it's a combination of a slightly oversize mag well, over-size mag catch cut in the Novaks, and just general "tolerance stacking" that keeps them from feeding. I'm glad it will work with the CM's - lesson learned - not all mags that lock the slide back will actually FEED in a particular gun.