Help! Put USP9 on layaway What should we do?

[RobotConquest]

Hi! I'm new to H&K models, and really, brand new to gun ownership in general. The missus & I were looking into a couple of different models for our first gun that were within in our price range, with the CZ 75 SP-01 & the SIG SP2022. Now admittedly, i've been drooling over the USP for the past few years as we've gotten interested in firearms, but the prices i'd seen - both new and used- were just out of reach. While looking at a local gunshop, an used H&K USP 9 with Meprolight tru-dot tritium front/yellow rear night sights caught my eye. It came with a hard case, but only one magazine, for a total, non-negotiable price of $600. I immediately tried it out, the action & trigger felt great, barrel had very little scratching on the finish, and knowing that brand new USPs with NS can run in the $800-900 & Up range, I looked at the insides, everything seemed in good order, so I put it on layaway. We're planning on picking it up this saturday, July 29, 2011. However, as I did extra research on the model, I learned that only early-mid 90s USPs have non-captive recoil springs and traditionally rifled barrels, two features which I found in this USP. Now, that I know about the USP date code, I'm sure that I'll be able to confirm my suspicion that this particular model is near 15 or 20 years old. I know that pre-2005 firing pins had breakage issues when dry fired regularly without snap caps, but do the oldest model USPs have other problems? The store will let me apply the down payment towards a different gun, but they'll only repair weapons free of charge for 30 days after purchase.

So I ask of all you experts- This being our first (but hopefully far from our last) firearm, I don't want a gun that'll crap out on me in a few months, or even a few years. This being the case, what can I look for to ensure that the USP isn't on its deathbed? The gun seems to be very well cared for- great finish on the exterior, hardly any scratching on the barrel's bluing, no pitting on the frame, but since the gun is almost certainly made before 95, should I just skip it, or do well cared for USPs last nearly forever? If not, what is their lifespan? Thank you all in advance for your help on this- I seek guidance from all you pros.

 

[spelsh]

I wish my first gun had been one that I had really wanted, and not something more practical, and less money.

I vote keep it, shoot it, enjoy it!

 

[Jason_G]

I have heard the same about the early firing pins. I honestly don't know what to tell you about that though. It might develop a problem, it might not.

The polygonal vs. traditional rifling in the bore in my opinion is a non-issue. I have and shoot both types of bores. They both shoot just fine, both are more accurate than I can shoot, and both are easy to clean, so unless you are going to get out the chronograph or something, I really don't think you'll be able to tell a difference. Plus, you'll have a rarer model when they stop making the USP.

Jason

 

[Onmilo]

Owning two H&K pistols, a USP Elite .45 acp and a P7 9mm, I can tell you the gun will not "crap out" on you.
The USP is actually overbuilt for the 9mm cartridge and with proper care and maintenance it will be around and still shootable long after you are gone.HTH

 

[Jason_G]

Owning two H&K pistols, a USP Elite .45 acp and a P7 9mm, I can tell you the gun will not "crap out" on you.

I'm pretty sure there were some real problems with some of the firing pins on the early models though. HK wouldn't have redesigned the pins and FPB for no reason. The new pin designs started in 2005, which would be an AF date code. I don't know when in '05 the new parts were implemented, so for all I know there may be some AF pistols that still have the older design.

The parts that were changed were the firing pin, the firing pin block, and the firing pin block spring. Those parts can be bought from places like Numrich's and swapped out yourself:

Firing pin, new style: $59.30
Firing pin block spring, new style: $10.55
Firing pin block, new style: $16.00

Grand total of $85.85 + shipping. You might show this to the owner of the gun shop and see if he's still firm on the $600.


Jason

 

[harmon rabb]

i'm not a huge H&K fan, but i'd never worry about wearing one out. they're very, very tough guns. clean it, lube it, and it will probably last you the rest of your life.

 

[Jason_G]

Aside from reading blanket statements about how reliable anything H&K is, I would do some real research starting here or here if I wanted to be sure of my investment. There IS a known issue with older FPs breaking, and failure to use snap caps apparently is not always the culprit. I'm not saying that you will necessarily have an issue, or that you shouldn't buy the weapon, but don't stick your head in the sand on this one, either.

 

[56hawk]

I have both the old and new style USP40. Put thousands of rounds through the old one without breaking anything. It does have one odd problem though. If shot with the original high cap magazine it works perfectly. However I bought the new style USP during the magazine ban and it came with a bunch of 10 rounders. With the 10 rounders every once in a while it will eject a live round out of the magazine while firing. Not sure if this applies to the 9mm or not.

By the way in my opinion you really can't do much better than a HK USP.

 

[usp9]

I'm a huge HK fan, however I have to admit I would probably pass on the $600 price. The gun sounds like it's in fine condition, but I didn't pay that much for my USP9, USPc9 or my PSP, all used but in good shape. I'd be tempted to negociate down or perhaps even look for a new USP. CDNN sells it for $698, new, no NS.

 

[REAPER4206969]

Nothing is going to go wrong with a USP.

 

[RobotConquest]

thanks soo much, you guys- I knew THR would be able to provide good advice. Although I could switch over to a SIG or a CZ, we'd far prefer the USP. Other than checking to see if the date code on the frame matchs the date code on the firing pin (and hopefully the FP code is AF or later), anything else you'd suggest? @Jason_G - I've heard about Kabooms from unjacketed handloads on the polygonally rifled barrels, and I've heard lots about FP breaks- some ay due to dry fire, ome not, but it seems to me that for every one break, there's 2 or 3 who haven't had the problem. Not odds that I like, nonetheless. Consensus seems to me to be that so long as a secondary inspection is passed, then we should "pull the trigger" so to speak. Am I reading that right?

 

[Jason_G]

@Jason_G - I've heard about Kabooms from unjacketed handloads on the polygonally rifled barrels, and I've heard lots about FP breaks- some ay due to dry fire, ome not, but it seems to me that for every one break, there's 2 or 3 who haven't had the problem. Not odds that I like, nonetheless. Consensus seems to me to be that so long as a secondary inspection is passed, then we should "pull the trigger" so to speak. Am I reading that right?

Here's what I know (or think I know) about polygonal barrels and unjacketed lead. Keep in mind that I don't shoot unjacketed lead, so someone else might be able to add or detract from this:

Polygonal bores can become fouled by unjacketed lead to the point of causing a KB if the bore is not cleaned often enough (this includes the chamber), and the process can become accelerated if the bullets are not hard cast. If you must shoot unjacketed lead through a polygonal bore, try to use hard cast bullets, clean your pistol very frequently, and check the bore even more frequently.

As for the FP breaks, all I can say is it's going to be the luck of the draw more than likely. Odds are, it will probably be fine, but if the weapon is for SD/HD, I would not trust it unless I swapped out those parts. Like I said, there are many folks who have broken their pins on these early model USPs. I have not heard of one issue with the newer design. Same with the early USP Compacts which utilize the same older pin. Lots of accounts of broken pins early on, but no issues with the newer pins. I think HK made two revisions to the design, so it's hard to think they would go through the trouble for nothing. Although the USP is an over-engineered tank in most regards, that notch in the FP that mates with the FPB is a weak spot.
More than likely, you will never have a problem, but many have, and like I said, I just wouldn't stake my life or a loved one's life on those odds. JMHO, obviously some folks disagree. To each their own.

Jason

 

[RobotConquest]

Jason- you're absolutely right. After I gave it a second look in a darkened area, I noticed that the rear NS were completely dead. I pointed out my concerns to the clerk, the guy didn't realize the age of it either since it was in such good shape. Although they won't come down on the price, other, NEWER, USPs are the same price, some w/ 2 mags. I can wait and transfer my credit to a newer one, or they have a 09 USP tactical for 799 that's in like new condition. Seems like a much better deal to me, but just out of our price range. Still, don't want to spend the same price for this 93 model that we'd pay for one with the post 05 firing pin configuration. Thank you all for your advice and input - we've decided to wait it out and see if we can't get a better deal for the price.

 

[Jason_G]

Jason- you're absolutely right. After I gave it a second look in a darkened area, I noticed that the rear NS were completely dead. I pointed out my concerns to the clerk, the guy didn't realize the age of it either since it was in such good shape. Although they won't come down on the price, other, NEWER, USPs are the same price, some w/ 2 mags. I can wait and transfer my credit to a newer one, or they have a 09 USP tactical for 799 that's in like new condition. Seems like a much better deal to me, but just out of our price range. Still, don't want to spend the same price for this 93 model that we'd pay for one with the post 05 firing pin configuration. Thank you all for your advice and input - we've decided to wait it out and see if we can't get a better deal for the price.

I think that I would've probably done the same. $600 seems a bit steep for that old of a USP, even if it were in great condition. The going prices are $733 for a fullsize 9mm/.40 at CDNN right now. That's not a whole lot more, and it's a brand new pistol with a warranty. If your local shop can do better, and you already have money in it, then jump on a new one.

Jason