Help Recalling a Quote Regarding Single Action Revolvers

[Mr. Mosin]

I recall the gist of it, but apparently my memory of it isn't perfect, because my search has turned up nothing... something to the effect of not having an ejector star to deal with, et al. Anyone have any ideas ? If the individual who stated such originally sees this, even better.


Thank y'all in advance for whatever help you provide on this wild goose chase...

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Possibly has to do with the .45 Colt round -- it has a minimal rim because it doesn't have an ejector star to deal with. When Colt brought out the New Service revolver around 1898, they re-designed the .45 Colt cartridge to provide enough rim for reliable ejection with an ejector star.

 

[Mr. Mosin]

Possibly has to do with the .45 Colt round -- it has a minimal rim because it doesn't have an ejector star to deal with. When Colt brought out the New Service revolver around 1898, they re-designed the .45 Colt cartridge to provide enough rim for reliable ejection with an ejector star.

No, no. It was praising the simplicity and reliability of the 1873 pattern single action over later double action patterns and autoloaders... thank you for the lesson though.

 

[Boomholzer]

With no period in mind and the additional posts; maybe the Schofield top break.

 

[CraigC]

What was the context?

 

[Mr. Mosin]

What was the context?

Concerning double action wheelguns jamming if powder flakes get under the ejector star, ejector rod coming unscrewed or getting bent, autoloaders requiring the perfect combination of a set ammunition and recoil springs, etc. Praised the Colt single action revolver of '73 for it's ruggedness and durability

 

[J-Bar]

How about this one?

From Sixguns by John Taffin, Chapter 1, page 12:

"One of the first negatives pointed out about single actions is that they are slow to load and unload. Frank Hamer would say you do not need any more than five rounds anyway, and anyone must confess that there is no way to reload a single action as fast as a double action with a speed loader or the fastest of all reloads, the magazine-fed autoloader. However, when the autoloader's magazines are empty everything is reversed. The single action is much faster to load and reload than it is to fill the semi-auto's magazine. An accomplished single action six gunner can actually reload faster than the average non-speedloader-using double action shooter -- especially if the double action shooter is careless and finds himself with an empty case stuck under the extractor star. Empties can be ejected from a spinning single action cylinder pretty fast and those nose-heavy big bore rounds drop back in with no effort. Thell Reed is almost as fast doing this as Jerry Miculek is speed loading his double action. Almost."

I also looked at Elmer Keith's Sixguns, but nothing caught my eye.

 

[Jim Watson]

But the Colt design has some relatively fragile parts. I have broken a trigger/bolt spring and a hand spring. A friend broke a bolt. There is a cottage industry putting in wire springs and coil springs for better durability.

And Ruger redesigned the whole thing.

But yes, I have also had a DA revolver cylinder bind up due to fouling under the extractor and you are also subject to the extractor rod loosening, especially in older Smiths with right hand threads. There are revolver smiths who will cut grooves on the back of the star to collect fouling.

Shooting revolvers in timed competition from PPC to IPSC to IDPA, I carry a chamber brush and a toothbrush to keep the cylinder clean.

 

[CraigC]

An accomplished single action six gunner can actually reload faster than the average non-speedloader-using double action shooter ...

People have argued with me until they're blue in the face for saying this. I didn't even realize that Taffin had written it so I can only conclude that I figured it out for myself.

But the Colt design has some relatively fragile parts. I have broken a trigger/bolt spring and a hand spring. A friend broke a bolt. There is a cottage industry putting in wire springs and coil springs for better durability.

And Ruger redesigned the whole thing.

I bought my first traditional single action as a 12yr old in 1986. There is no telling how much shooting I've done with them since, as they have been my primary obsession much of that time. I have replaced exactly one hand spring, on a friend's high mileage Colt Frontier Scout and exactly one broken sear/trigger spring, on a brand new percussion gun.

 

[J-Bar]

The Colt design can be fired without a hand and handspring and even without a hammer spring or trigger. Index the cylinder by hand for each shot and hit the hammer spur with a rock. Not ideal, but the gun will go bang, and in a desperate situation is better than throwing the rock.

 

[Dave T]

Back in the 1980s and1990s I had a small collection of re-built and restored 1st Generation Colts that I shot in CAS competition. They all had original style springs and in at least one example probably original springs. I never broke a single spring.

I now have a small collection of USFA single actions which also have original style springs. I don't shoot as much as I did in the last century (lol) but I haven't broken any springs and don't expect to.

Oh I'm sure they break occasionally but I'd just bet there are more mentions of broken trigger/bolt springs and broken hand springs on the internet than there are actual examples of same.

Dave

 

[Mr. Mosin]

All good things, and thank you all for them; but none are what I'm looking for... or rather, what I think I remember I'm looking for.

 

[1KPerDay]

An accomplished single action six gunner can actually reload faster than the average non-speedloader-using double action shooter -- especially if the double action shooter is careless and finds himself with an empty case stuck under the extractor star. Empties can be ejected from a spinning single action cylinder pretty fast and those nose-heavy big bore rounds drop back in with no effort. Thell Reed is almost as fast doing this as Jerry Miculek is speed loading his double action. Almost.
.

Yeah, that's like saying a Pontiac Fiero is almost as fast as a Ferrari 458. Almost.

 

[J-Bar]

Yeah, that's like saying a Pontiac Fiero is almost as fast as a Ferrari 458. Almost.

Not my opinion. Just quoting Mr. Taffin, you understand.

 

[JohnKSa]

Thell Reed is almost as fast doing this as Jerry Miculek is speed loading his double action. Almost."

I'm not familiar with that meaning of the word 'almost'.

 

[CraigC]

I'd hate to know I had to face down Thell Reed. Even if mine was loaded and his was empty. Teaching people to run a sixgun fast is what he's done for a living for most of his adult life.

 

[JohnKSa]

The reload time for Miculek's record (shoot 6, reload, shoot 6 in 2.99s overall) was 1.37 seconds. Found another video where he did a reload in 1.57 seconds. Records aren't really typical performance, but it seems like he's able to consistently come in around the 1.5 second mark--call it 1.6 for simplicity.

Since taking twice as long to reload probably isn't really anyone's idea of "almost as fast", I'm thinking that a reasonable interpretation would mean that Reed's reloads couldn't be 1.6 seconds slower than Miculek's. So reloads in significantly under 3.2seconds.

I can't find any information on Reed's SAA reload times, but I'm hoping someone can find something definitive--a video would be way better. Love to watch a master at work!

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Patton was quoted as saying the semiautomatic was a gun of two parts, ammunition and magazine, while the revolver needed only loose ammunition.

 

[Jim Watson]

Give Thell Reed the double action and Miculek the single action and see how that works.
Equipment does matter.
Jeff Cooper described the occasion when he took his automatic to a big LE training facility and was told he should use one magazine and loose cartridges so as to not embarrass the revolver policy makers.

 

[UncleEd]

Jim Watson,

Yes, Cooper was at the FBI Academy to
shoot with the trainees. He was told he
could not use a spare magazine(s) for
reloads, that he had to deal with loose
ammo just like the revolver wielding
trainees.

It was in the days before revolver
speedloaders were common but
drop pouches were much in use.

 

[CraigC]

Give Thell Reed the double action and Miculek the single action and see how that works.

Or take away the speedloaders/moon clips. I have no idea how fast Thell can reload a sixgun but I guarantee it's a lot faster than most people would expect. Jerry is fast and he was already a legend when I was first reading about him 30yrs ago but the fact is, he's doing a lot less work.

 

[Jim Watson]

Thell Reed has this little gimmick of loading a SAA with .45 ACP from a 1911 magazine.

 

[Mr. Mosin]

I would prefer a single action revolver for everything except concealed carry, and that only because most are too large. If NAA would make something the size of the Remington '63 Pocket or old Iver Johnson pocket top breaks in .32 or .38 caliber with a spur trigger; I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

 

[Tennessee Jed]

I remember reading an article years ago that discussed 45 Colt as a self defense caliber, in which author said the 45 Colt is a good caliber for self defense, as long as the handgun in question is a single action revolver, because the cylinder star on a double action 45 Colt couldn't be counted on to reliably extract the empty cases.

I could be wrong, but I recalled the article being by maybe Chuck Hawks or Bob Campbell. Maybe that's what you're thinking of?

 

[trackskippy]

I remember reading an article years ago that discussed 45 Colt as a self defense caliber, in which author said the 45 Colt is a good caliber for self defense, as long as the handgun in question is a single action revolver, because the cylinder star on a double action 45 Colt couldn't be counted on to reliably extract the empty cases.

If thats the case, then just another reason not to buy a Colt.

Having shot and reloaded SA and DA revolvers, even with just loose rounds, theres no way the SA will come out ahead, especially given intermediate shooters of the same basic skill level with the guns. With the DA, I can easily get two to three rounds in the gun at one time, loose or from pouches. Bump things up to speed loaders, and you are pretty much as fast as an auto.

Shooting a stock SA Ruger, there will be more cussing going on than reloading.

People who practice, with whatever it is they choose, to the point of being able to work it without thinking about doing it, will always be better than those who dont.

When they start handicapping those with more realistic guns, so the other guy can come close to competing, you know the fix is in.

The big question is, do we all get a trophy?