Hi Folks,
I'm a long time lurker and first time poster today
I'm having issues with the FPS data I'm getting with reloads and from my last session at the range over pressured loads. I'll try to summarize it with all the detail without it becoming a long post.
My experience with reloading is primarily with 9mm and 380 ACP pistols and I'm fairly new to that. I've reloading about 2-3K over the last few years but again only straight wall pistol ammo
I bought a Savage Axis 18" barrel a few years ago for deer season here in the southern part of Michigan (aka shotgun only zone and now straight wall only rifle zone). I wanted to reload instead of buying factory ammo. I bought some winchester never fired brass and resized (to make sure) then trimmed to 1.705. I bought 2 types of bullets 165 grn Hornady FTX and 170 grn Hornday SP. I searched for 350L reloading info and got 2 conflicting sources. Hornady showed reloading data for both above bullets as the same. Hodgdon had different loads for each bullet. I decided the Hodgdon data must be correct (see below for info)
Below data for 170 SP with H110 powder with 16" barrel
Hornady Data start grn 20.2/2000 fps DNE grn 26/2250 fps COAL 2.245"
Hodgdon Data Start grn 24.0/2049 fps DNE grn 26.7/2221 fps COAL 2.255
I got the following from my caldwell ballistic with 170 SP with H110 9-15-23 with 66* temp (batch 0) COAL with remaining cartridges is 2.250-2.245"
24.5 H110 AVG 2254 fps (2275, 2231, 2256)
25.0 H110 AVG 2314 fps (2322, 2307, 2314)
25.5 H110 AVG 2335 fps (2329, 2331, 2346) - this was best accuracy
26.0 H110 AVG 2381 fps (I only shot one since the recoil seemed quite a bit and i wasn't sure why I was getting much higher fps than the load data)
26.5 - I didn't even shoot these based on above line for 26.0 and what seemed like exceedingly high velocity
Even using the lower grain data from Hornady I shouldn't have been at these types of velocities. I searched and found the usual response for extra barrel length which IIRC was something like 20-25 fps. I also found some posts on forums where guys with savages saw similar kind of velocity like I did so I chalked it up to being OK. The above load data doesn't give a temperature so I thought I'd try to read the speed on these on a colder date. SO I made a handful of 25.5 grain (Batch 1) and planned to use them for early season (I didn't shoot any). I then replaced the defective scope that was on it so made another 10 (BATCH 2) to use for sighting in. Here's the data from that day at 48* on 11-2-23. NOTE barrel was still dirty from previous session
170 SP COAL 2.240-2.235"
#1) 25.5 Batch 1 H110 2257 fps weird that it's much lower (2335 avg) than before but I considered it to be the temperature difference
#2) 25.5 Batch 1 H110 2318 #3) #4) #5) #6) no reading range was outdoors, sun was going down so I turned on lights on sunshades
#7) 25.5 Batch 2 H110 2386 fps (bolt may have been harder to open but I may have chaulked it up to dirty barrel??)
#8) 25.5 Batch 2 H110 2396 fps (bolt may have been harder to open but I may have chaulked it up to dirty barrel??)
#9) 25.5 Batch 2 H110 2459 fps Bolt was VERY hard to open and I'm at a point where I'm confused as to why this happened but I was thinking maybe it had to do with it becoming very dark out at this point and chrono is acting weird. Anyway I decide this is way overboard and pack it up (and also too dark out).
After I got home I noticed one had a clear bolt retractor impression on it (maybe I noticed it at the range). I looked at all of the heads and I separated 4 that had what appeared to be bolt retractor impressions and again what must have been the #9 one had a very clear impression on it. I shot 4 of the original 10 from batch 2 (#6-9)
Both sets of load data put 26 grains at either 2178 (Hog) fps or 2250 (Horn)fps so I'm WAY out of whack on this somehow. both sets show 25.5 grains at 2140 (Hog) & 2225 (Horn)
My plans right now are to pull the bullets from the cartridges and weigh again to confirm the weight of grains. I was using a cheapo digital scale but also have a Lee balance I'm going to bounce these weight numbers off. I'm also going to pull the primers and trim the cases down to 1.700 or so in case that's an issue (again these were trimmed to 1.705). I did measure the batch 2 prior to loading them. I did notice some scratches on the mouths of the spent cases that were about 1mm long (parallel to bore) and I wondered if that was the throat of the chamber pinching the case. I still have all of the spent cases and the batch 2 looks like it has flattened primers (to my inexperienced eyes).
After checking my COAL on what I have left and my notes when I reloaded them I'm wondering if the .020 difference between what I loaded and what's in the Hogdon manual could create these issues?
NOTE: I'm on a budget so most of my equipment is LEE. I was using Lee dies in a turret press. The primers were CCI small pistol (#400) all from the same pack of 100 (given to me by neighbor who reloads). There's only been about 50 or so shots fired from this rifle since new in 2020. I shot some for sighting in prior to when I had a chrono so I loaded them at 24 or 24.5 grns of H110 thinking I was far below the danger zone. The bolt was hitting the scope so I called Savage and they sent me a new scope a month ago or so (hence the range time above on 11-2).
I've heard about some guys using Hornady factory ammo and having the heads separate from the cases and/or primers falling out. The response the poster (allegedly) got from Hornady is this happens for the first 100 rnds or so....maybe this gun needs to be broken in??
I'm also wondering if my crimp might be to tight on this and that's why it's causing me the higher FPS? I've pushed the bullet point onto wood on the cartridges and it doesn't move so I don't think it's too light. I'm using the separate lee crimp die and had thought about lightening up the crimp
Any insight would be helpful
I'm a long time lurker and first time poster today
I'm having issues with the FPS data I'm getting with reloads and from my last session at the range over pressured loads. I'll try to summarize it with all the detail without it becoming a long post.
My experience with reloading is primarily with 9mm and 380 ACP pistols and I'm fairly new to that. I've reloading about 2-3K over the last few years but again only straight wall pistol ammo
I bought a Savage Axis 18" barrel a few years ago for deer season here in the southern part of Michigan (aka shotgun only zone and now straight wall only rifle zone). I wanted to reload instead of buying factory ammo. I bought some winchester never fired brass and resized (to make sure) then trimmed to 1.705. I bought 2 types of bullets 165 grn Hornady FTX and 170 grn Hornday SP. I searched for 350L reloading info and got 2 conflicting sources. Hornady showed reloading data for both above bullets as the same. Hodgdon had different loads for each bullet. I decided the Hodgdon data must be correct (see below for info)
Below data for 170 SP with H110 powder with 16" barrel
Hornady Data start grn 20.2/2000 fps DNE grn 26/2250 fps COAL 2.245"
Hodgdon Data Start grn 24.0/2049 fps DNE grn 26.7/2221 fps COAL 2.255
I got the following from my caldwell ballistic with 170 SP with H110 9-15-23 with 66* temp (batch 0) COAL with remaining cartridges is 2.250-2.245"
24.5 H110 AVG 2254 fps (2275, 2231, 2256)
25.0 H110 AVG 2314 fps (2322, 2307, 2314)
25.5 H110 AVG 2335 fps (2329, 2331, 2346) - this was best accuracy
26.0 H110 AVG 2381 fps (I only shot one since the recoil seemed quite a bit and i wasn't sure why I was getting much higher fps than the load data)
26.5 - I didn't even shoot these based on above line for 26.0 and what seemed like exceedingly high velocity
Even using the lower grain data from Hornady I shouldn't have been at these types of velocities. I searched and found the usual response for extra barrel length which IIRC was something like 20-25 fps. I also found some posts on forums where guys with savages saw similar kind of velocity like I did so I chalked it up to being OK. The above load data doesn't give a temperature so I thought I'd try to read the speed on these on a colder date. SO I made a handful of 25.5 grain (Batch 1) and planned to use them for early season (I didn't shoot any). I then replaced the defective scope that was on it so made another 10 (BATCH 2) to use for sighting in. Here's the data from that day at 48* on 11-2-23. NOTE barrel was still dirty from previous session
170 SP COAL 2.240-2.235"
#1) 25.5 Batch 1 H110 2257 fps weird that it's much lower (2335 avg) than before but I considered it to be the temperature difference
#2) 25.5 Batch 1 H110 2318 #3) #4) #5) #6) no reading range was outdoors, sun was going down so I turned on lights on sunshades
#7) 25.5 Batch 2 H110 2386 fps (bolt may have been harder to open but I may have chaulked it up to dirty barrel??)
#8) 25.5 Batch 2 H110 2396 fps (bolt may have been harder to open but I may have chaulked it up to dirty barrel??)
#9) 25.5 Batch 2 H110 2459 fps Bolt was VERY hard to open and I'm at a point where I'm confused as to why this happened but I was thinking maybe it had to do with it becoming very dark out at this point and chrono is acting weird. Anyway I decide this is way overboard and pack it up (and also too dark out).
After I got home I noticed one had a clear bolt retractor impression on it (maybe I noticed it at the range). I looked at all of the heads and I separated 4 that had what appeared to be bolt retractor impressions and again what must have been the #9 one had a very clear impression on it. I shot 4 of the original 10 from batch 2 (#6-9)
Both sets of load data put 26 grains at either 2178 (Hog) fps or 2250 (Horn)fps so I'm WAY out of whack on this somehow. both sets show 25.5 grains at 2140 (Hog) & 2225 (Horn)
My plans right now are to pull the bullets from the cartridges and weigh again to confirm the weight of grains. I was using a cheapo digital scale but also have a Lee balance I'm going to bounce these weight numbers off. I'm also going to pull the primers and trim the cases down to 1.700 or so in case that's an issue (again these were trimmed to 1.705). I did measure the batch 2 prior to loading them. I did notice some scratches on the mouths of the spent cases that were about 1mm long (parallel to bore) and I wondered if that was the throat of the chamber pinching the case. I still have all of the spent cases and the batch 2 looks like it has flattened primers (to my inexperienced eyes).
After checking my COAL on what I have left and my notes when I reloaded them I'm wondering if the .020 difference between what I loaded and what's in the Hogdon manual could create these issues?
NOTE: I'm on a budget so most of my equipment is LEE. I was using Lee dies in a turret press. The primers were CCI small pistol (#400) all from the same pack of 100 (given to me by neighbor who reloads). There's only been about 50 or so shots fired from this rifle since new in 2020. I shot some for sighting in prior to when I had a chrono so I loaded them at 24 or 24.5 grns of H110 thinking I was far below the danger zone. The bolt was hitting the scope so I called Savage and they sent me a new scope a month ago or so (hence the range time above on 11-2).
I've heard about some guys using Hornady factory ammo and having the heads separate from the cases and/or primers falling out. The response the poster (allegedly) got from Hornady is this happens for the first 100 rnds or so....maybe this gun needs to be broken in??
I'm also wondering if my crimp might be to tight on this and that's why it's causing me the higher FPS? I've pushed the bullet point onto wood on the cartridges and it doesn't move so I don't think it's too light. I'm using the separate lee crimp die and had thought about lightening up the crimp
Any insight would be helpful
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