Help with cleaning jag and wet powder!

D

Darth-Vang

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Joined
Sep 2, 2019
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368
Location
Oklahoma
Finally went to the range today and finally get to shoot my 2 CVA 32 cal rifles. It was a pretty bad experience and there was cussing involved. XD So I've been reading about muzzleloaders and how to work up a load with various patch thicknesses and with different powder charges, swabbing after each shot to make sure the next shot was consistent as the last was followed by a dry patch to wick up any moisture that might be in the barrel. That's what I did in that order, starting load with 10 grs and .005" patch shot in 3 shots group at 36 yards according to my range finder. I started with my CVA 32 cal squirrel rifle and made my way up towards the 2nd 20 gr shot and was abruptly interrupted by a "pop." The gun did not go off. Try a second time with just another pop. Picked the nipple and made sure the nipple vent hole wasn't blocked, tried again, pop and no bang. I realized that it was probably a dud or maybe the powder was wet because of the swabbing?! The swabbing patches are soaked with cva bore solvent in a ziploc baggie. Also I noted that how hard it was to swab with the button cleaning jag! It took a mallet to drive it down the barrel!? It was insanely hard to swab the gun, it really took some efforts to really get in there, also took a vise grip and the mallet to get it out of the barrel as well?? It was insanely hard, and currently the button jag with the dry patch is stuck in the barrel... also broke the threads on the loading ramrod tip while trying to drive the button jag through the cleaning patch with the mallet...I'm out of a ramrod an a button cleaning jag, also I took my regular cleaning rod to help facilitate the swabbing which really didn't help when trying to use the 8/32 to 10/32 adapter to try to swab it with the currently stuck cleaning button jag as the regular cleaning rod was a 3 piece and pretty thin compared to the gun's ramrod and trying to smack it down with the cleaning rod seemed not to be a good idea...and prior to that I did remove the dud load with the bullet puller, but I had no idea how to use it so I just whacked the hell out of it with the mallet and drove it through the ball, I notice how wet the powder was when I used the scraper to clean it out. After unsuccessfully trying to get the stuck button jag with the dry patch out, I then turn to shoot the CVA varmint. Again same procedure, worked my way up towards the 3rd loading, .010" patch at 20 grs charge, pop. No bang. Tried again, pop, still no bang, picked the nipple to make sure there was no obstructions, tried again, pop.... so I installed the bullet puller and again I smacked the hell out of it in hopes it'll drive through the bullet and hopefully it'll work and I can pull it out but nope couldn't at the range! I vise gripped the ramrod(which is brass btw) and used the mallet to get it outt but to no avail, the hot weather today didn't help either... the ramrod is stuck with the bullet puller attachment currently but I'll try to see if i can use the bench vice in hopes of getting the rod and bullet out. Also since the cleaning button jag for the .32 cal muzzleloader was out of commission, i used the regular cleaning rod with the regular cleaning jag to swab the Varmint. Also the soaked and dry cleaning patch used was regular squared 100% cotton 25-35 cal cleaning patch from Walmart. Am I doing something wrong here guys? The wrong patch? The wrong jag size maybe? Cause it is hard to get it in the barelllll, it takes a mallet and a palm saver to get it innn, it was very aggravating and tons of effort...also I believe the rods aren't maybe getting all the way to the bottom of the barrel?? Maybe that explains the wet duds?? I need help with a correct muzzleloading range rod and size, and with today's experience maybe a one piece range rod and not some 2 or 3 piece rod? Do I need a particular button jag size?? Also needing replacement ramrods for both rifles! Where and what material is superior?? And how to correctly swab a muzzleloader for sure! Any and all inputs is appreciated! :D
 
Sorry for your bad day . From what I have read this is why I like larger calibers. Others with more experience will chime in soon.
 
Too big of a jag, or wrong type
Too thick of a patch
Combination of both maybe

Everybody shooting a percussion
rifle needs one of those brass
nipple primers that used to be
sold everywhere ( even if they
don't know it)

It can be fineggled out with no
problem. If there was an experienced
traditional BP shooter on the scene,
they should have showed you what
to do
 
Yikes! No fun!

Firstly, I'll say that "swabbing" seems to be the latest craze, and it really isn't necessary. Loading with a "damp" - not dripping, but saturated and then squeezed out - patch around the ball goes a long way toward keeping the bore clean and stable during a day of shooting. And almost anything works - Ballistol and water, alcohol, commercial lubes, etc.

Secondly, you should never have to use significant force to get the rod into or out of the bore. It sounds like your jag is simply too big. I'd either turn it down, replace it with something smaller, or use an undersized or worn-out brass brush with the patch wrapped around it. The latter method is my favorite, as it absolutely prevents the patch from falling off in the barrel, and it also does a better job getting into the nooks and crannies.

A good loading rod is a very nice thing to have for range use. It should be one piece, it should be steel, it should come with a muzzle guide/protector, and it should have a handle. I do most all of my loading and cleaning with one, reserving the wooden ramrod for hunting and field use. I use this loading rod from Track of the Wolf. https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/830/1

Replacement ramrods should be made of straight grained hickory. They come in two different threads (10-32 and 8-32) so you'll want to get ones that match your other bits. You also should measure the thickness of your existing rods, to ensure the replacements fit into your guns. Lots of places sell good hickory rods, including Track.
 
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Now, just for perspective, here is how I load my guns, including smallbores:

The first thing is to run a dry patch down the bore, to get rid of any oil, etc. Then I pop a cap, if it's a caplock, to clear the flash channel. Then I pour in my powder charge. Then I get out a patch. These can be pre-lubed commercial patches like those from Wonder-Lube, but if I'm planning on shooting a lot - especially with a .32 - I like to put a stack of dry patches into a container, soak them in 50/50 Ballistol/water (that's called "moose milk" and works great, but all sorts of watery lubes are good too) then pour out the liquid, give the patches a good squeeze, and then put them back into the container. At any rate, the patch goes onto the muzzle, a ball goes on top, and they get rammed home.

Now, some folks argue that a really tight patch/ball gives best accuracy, and I'd say sometimes they are right. It's not universal, though, and even when it is the case, it's usually a pretty small difference. I personally hate having to pound a load down the bore, so if I can't get the ball started with just thumb pressure - no short starter, and certainly no mallet! - then I change something, either going to a smaller ball, a thinner patch, or both. So I thumb the patched ball into the muzzle, then run it down with the rod, and then cap and shoot.

Then I simply do it over again, until I'm tired or out of powder. (The dry patching and cap-popping is only done before the very first shot of the day, of course.) If the bore becomes fouled enough that I have to start pounding on things then I'll give it a light cleaning/swabbing, and on a .32 that does sometimes happen - usually after a few dozen shots, though. The damp patch around each ball does a good job removing a lot of fouling. Additional swabbing between each shot simply isn't acceptable to me, specialized long-range target guns excepted.

It really should be that easy. Good luck, and have fun!
 
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Agree w/ all the comment re too big a jag/too thick a patch.
Swabbing/cleaning a bore should never be even close to difficult.

Go to a fabric store w/your calibers and get a yard of:
- 100% cotton pillow ticking (usually 15-18 thou)
- 100% cotton muslin (~10 thou)
One or both will work best depending on ball diameter.
Also... get a slotted jag for the real slopping out at end of day.

As to lubed patch with the ball... damp only.
(...and there's a reason God made spit... )

Been there/done that

The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - .32 caliber Patch and Ball combos - share yours

The Leading Online Forum for firearms Enthusiasts
thefiringline.com

As to cleaning that 32... a real b....(you know the term)
I recommend this https://www.greenbeanbuddy.com/sp/s...BqTRB_sxdKDZNQspqJIO6XzaYtGy5ugkaAhO9EALw_wcB
jammed into the nipple hole... done in a couple of heartbeats and you'll be amazed at what comes out.
Be sure to oil thoroughly thereafter
 
After firing, run a dry bronze bore brush up & down the bore, 5 times. Then a loose patch on a slotted jag, using a 22 caliber steel 1 piece cleaning rod. Done, load.

The patch and ball should be some what loose fitting, so the ram rod can get the ball fully down the barrel in 1 motion. Patch needs lightly lubed. Mark rod at muzzle when powder charge is set, and ball is fully seated.

Dont forget powder, then ball.
 
243winxb said:
After firing, run a dry bronze bore brush up & down the bore, 5 times. Then a loose patch on a slotted jag, using a 22 caliber steel 1 piece cleaning rod. Done, load.

The patch and ball should be some what loose fitting, so the ram rod can get the ball fully down the barrel in 1 motion. Patch needs lightly lubed. Mark rod at muzzle when powder charge is set, and ball is fully seated.

Dont forget powder, then ball.
Click to expand...
I'll get that a try whenever I go back to shooting them.
 
MEHavey said:
ye gads... reverse bristle brush in the bore ? o_O! :feet:!! :eek:!!! (;))
As a suggestion/alternative, run a spit/damp patch on a 30 caliber jag down the bore than back up & out.
(re)Load....
Click to expand...
I'll give a 30 cal button jag a try whenever i get the chance to.
 
hawg said:
I would never run a bronze brush down a muzzleloader bore. When you pull it back out the bristles will reverse and a stuck brush will make a stuck patch seem like childs play.
Click to expand...
Then the diameter of the bronze brush is to large. I always measure the brush diameter before using in any firearm. Some brushes are larger then what is marked on the package.

The barrel steel is harder then a brush. Not going to hurt a thing, if done correctly.
 
After you get the ball out, don't push down a patched jag. Instead use the worm to break up any compacted fouling. Muzzle loading artillerist used to push a worm down the bore to catch any obstruction. This was followed by a wet swab (with one gunner with a leather thumbpiece over the vent) to extinguish any smoldering ember. Finally the powder charge and ball/shot/cannister was rammed down.

Sometimes it's best to flush through the nipple. Then worm and then jag with wet patch.
 
BTW, if you must push a brush down, try those Tornado Spiral bronze bore brushes. As MeHavey & Hawg mentioned, regular bristle brushes don't like being pushed partially through a barrel and then pulled out. That ruins the bristles.

I don't use brushes myself but do have a CVA pump that pumps water through the barrel. Messy I'm lazy.
 
4v50 Gary said:
BTW, if you must push a brush down, try those Tornado Spiral bronze bore brushes. As MeHavey & Hawg mentioned, regular bristle brushes don't like being pushed partially through a barrel and then pulled out. That ruins the bristles.

I don't use brushes myself but do have a CVA pump that pumps water through the barrel. Messy I'm lazy.
Click to expand...

If you have a keyed barrel just stick the breech in a bucket of water and a bore mop will pull water up the bore and push it out the nipple.
 
Like everyone says, your jag and patch combination was way way way way way way tooooooooooooooooo TIGHT! :) Anytime you have a lot of resistance ramming anything down the barrel STOP, back off. Collaborate and LISTEN! (listen to what the rifle is telling you) And, if swabbing between shots don't use much fluid...it will squeeze out and pool in the bottom of your breech. (I saw the word: "soaked" in your post. That is NOT good!) (I am a swabber, but I don't target shoot of plink with my rifles, I sight in, check the sights now and then, or may change up my powder charge, patch and ball, or lube combination.) (after that is said and done, I'll fire a couple of three shot groups, only cleaning between shots, to see where my follow-up shots would go, should I need them. They do go a little bit high, not enough to matter at close range, where "follow-up" shots would be used)

Depending on the type of breech, or breech plug, a dry patch on the jag will not reach the "pool" or wet area.

A cool thing I learned from YouTuber "Cap-n-Ball" is to swab after you seat your ball over the powder, after the previous shot. That way, no crud, oil or lube gets pushed into the breech.
 
Darth-Vang said:
Do I need a particular button jag size??
Click to expand...
Yes. chuck it in the drill press and take a file and steel wool to it, until you get the perfect size. No drill press? Put the hand drill in a vise, with the jag chucked in it, and do that same thing. No vise? Can't help! :) The perfect size: whatever lets the jag and patched go down a fouled bore easily.
 
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