Help with measuring flask

[coppermouse]

I got an adjustable Pedersoli measuring flask and had a few questions

How repeatable should it be. If I set it for 30 gr for example what would be the max and min value like 29 - 31 or what?

I may not be using it correctly there were no instructions and I did not see any of their website.

There is a very small set screw in the spout. is that used for any adjsutment or just to hold it together?

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Just hang on. I myself can't help you. I know absolutely about Pedersoli or any of their products and I'm not going to sit here and start lying to you..People on here do know about them. Someone may be doing some research for you right now. Anyway, just hang on here and when people like 'Old Fuff', 'Mr. MyKeal', 'Articap' 'Madcratebuilder' and quite a few others see your post they will help you....

 

[denster]

That little set screw is used to adjust the flask in if I recall correctly 5gr increments. Back it out and you can slide the spout out and you will see little grooves the set screw goes into. The closure on the front is also threaded and you can turn it in or out to fine tune it. I have one but in my personal opinion they are more of a pain than a help. I like a regular flask with a set of spouts for different charges.

 

[coppermouse]

Well is this doesnt work out I will send it back and get one of those. I like to shoot around 30 gr. Moust of the fixed spout ones didnt sseem to have spouts in that size

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Call Cabela's. Get yourself a good powder flask and a set of assorted spouts. They don't cost much. Just screw in whichever one you want. (ie 24 grains, 30 grains, etc, right on up to 90 grains). The flask will come with it's own spout already screwed into place; usually a 24 grain spout....PS-The spouts come in a set....

 

[denster]

What GOC said. Tresso makes spouts and sets of spouts in whatever range you could reasonably desire.

 

[Armored farmer]

don't forget amigo....that you are measuring by volume, not by wieght.
I made that mistake not long ago.
I dumped out 28 gr from a flask for my '58 REM then promptly dumped in on my elec scale...hmmm.sumpthin not right???

 

[junkman_01]

Was it close? How far off?

 

[rcflint]

flask

The actual amount dropped by a flask spout depends upon some variables, including how hard your finger is pressed onto the opening, and how hard you shake the flask. When you are dealing with such a large amount of powder, like 30 grains, a few tenths, or even a half grain don't affect the power or accuracy much. in a smokeless load like 5 or 6 grains, a tenth can make a difference.

 

[wittzo]

If you're using real Blackpowder, the volume and weight are the same. 30 grains of real BP in volume weighs 30 grains in weight.

The substitutes DO NOT. You HAVE to measure them by volume. You can refer to various manufacturer's charts on their website where they weighed their charges and cross reference their volumes, but it would be just easier to measure them with a measure or pour spout.

My spouts throw 5 grains less than the spouts are supposed to be. It doesn't matter if it's the Treso with the safety spout or the Italian CVA with the flap, they're both 5 grains short. So when I load 30 grains, it measures out to 25 grains in a fixed measure. I guess my fingerpad takes up that much room when I shake it, or there's 5 grains of dead space from the mechanism.

 

[madcratebuilder]

I got an adjustable Pedersoli measuring flask and had a few questions

How repeatable should it be. If I set it for 30 gr for example what would be the max and min value like 29 - 31 or what?

I may not be using it correctly there were no instructions and I did not see any of their website.

There is a very small set screw in the spout. is that used for any adjsutment or just to hold it together?

Do you have a powder volume measure to check what the spout volume is?


If your adjustable spout is off a few grains from your desired volume you can file the end to get it exact. I wouldn't worry about it being off a few grains high or low. I think most adjustable spouts are in 5gr increments.

 

[coppermouse]

I am checking it on a scale

 

[denster]

You can actually set that one pretty close. The closure in the spout opening screws in and out also and can limit the incremental changes. It's still a pain.

 

[coppermouse]

Can you explain that ? I don't quite understand.

 

[denster]

The end plug in the end of the spout is on a threaded rod. If you pull back on the spout and screw the end plug in a bit it limits how much powder is dispensed. Also remember that when you loosen the set screw and lengthen the spout you have to unscrew the plug to match. Take it apart and look at the parts and how it operates will be pretty apparent.

 

[madcratebuilder]

If you're using real Blackpowder, the volume and weight are the same. 30 grains of real BP in volume weighs 30 grains in weight.

No sir.

Scale weight grains are NOT the same as the volume grains.

Black powder volume scales are marked in grains of WATER. Your powder scale is a dry measure grain (avoirdupois) having 7000gr. per pound.

 

[coppermouse]

Yes I understand now, and I think I have it adjusted right, but the thing is that it is not that repeatable when I check several measurements in a row on a scale. Nevermind if it is by volume or by weight, how much can I expect it to vary? Would the fixed spout type be more repeatable?
There are no instructions so I am assuming you hold it vertical (spout down) and push in the spout and a premeasured charge is dispensed from the spout. Is this correct?

 

[denster]

Should be repeatable within +-2 grains.

 

[scrat]

Black powder is not rocket science. You do not have to be exact to the gram. Think back 140 years ago. Not that many people had powder measures on the field. Most Revolver loading was done by sight. Hell i still do that today. Load it to just about there. then put the ball and ram down. No powder measure. now if your using light loads to stay consistant then ya use a powder measure. However you are worrying way to much about nothing. having a few extra or less granuales is not going to make a plum difference and anyone who thinks it is. Well there a damn fool.

 

[wittzo]

I'm sorry, I read that in another thread, but I haven't verified it personally because there was no reason to since I don't use a scale to measure it out.

 

[madcratebuilder]

Black powder is not rocket science. You do not have to be exact to the gram. Think back 140 years ago. Not that many people had powder measures on the field. Most Revolver loading was done by sight. Hell i still do that today. Load it to just about there. then put the ball and ram down. No powder measure. now if your using light loads to stay consistant then ya use a powder measure. However you are worrying way to much about nothing. having a few extra or less granuales is not going to make a plum difference and anyone who thinks it is. Well there a damn fool.

+1

Unless I'm shooting for group size I just eye ball it. Black powder is very forgiving on charge size (volume).

 

[junkman_01]

No sir.

Scale weight grains are NOT the same as the volume grains.

Black powder volume scales are marked in grains of WATER. Your powder scale is a dry measure grain (avoirdupois) having 7000gr. per pound.

I call BS on that statement. Grains is a WEIGHT measurement, not a volume measurement. Here's an article that what explains it all....

http://www.chuckhawks.com/blackpowder_volumetric.htm

"You won’t find any definition of a blackpowder volumetric grain from the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), or any other source that I know of. The reason is simple; there is none. Blackpowder has always been measured by weight, not by volume; just like breakfast cereal. You buy blackpowder by the pound, and that is weight, not a volumetric pound.”

 

[denster]

Much as I hate to find myself even remotely in agreement with Randy Wakeman he does have a point even though he overcomplicates it and tries to give it more importance than it has.
Powder measures like we are discussing here are devices of convenience not of precision. For instance a powder measure set to 100 grains when the charges are weighed on a scale may weigh 90 grains or maybe 105 grains or maybe even 100 grains it will depend on the brand of powder and the granulation how it is filled and settled but it will be in the ballpark. If you use the same brand and granulation of powder and fill and settle it the same way each time the charges will be within a couple of grains of each other whatever the actual weight may be. For most shooters with black powder that is good enough. For those interested in maximum consistency you use a powder scale and pre-weigh your charges.
The subs are generally, because the same volume of powder will weigh less, rated by the manufacturors to be by volume of black powder because it keeps things simple and most shooters like things simple and this rating keeps them out of trouble. It would be too complicated and confusing to say if you shoot 100 grains of black powder then only shoot 77 grains of 777. It's easier to say just use the same measure as you do for black powder. For most shooters this is good enough and for those into maximum consistancy they can figure out the actual weights.

 

[TheRodDoc]

For all that don't know this I will try to explain.

Black powder measures are all to be made by a standard. Water!

At least that's the way they are supposed to be made.

When you are told to use 30 grains of black powder in your gun it doesn't mean that much powder.

Also, that's the way it is supposed to be. But due to all the confusion who knows now days.

It means use a 30 grain black powder measure.


A 30 grain black powder measure has nothing to do with the weight of the black powder.
They are two totally different things.

It holds the volume of the weight of 30 grains of water.

To make black powder measures all the same water is weighed on a scale. Lets say 30 grains.

That is poured into a container and the level is marked. (must use a very slight amount of soap to break surface tension of water to get accurate level)

The container is then cut at that level.
And you have a 30 grain black powder measure.
Regardless of how much the black powder it will hold will weigh.

And that's why some of you wonder why your power measure doesn't throw as many grains of black powder as you think it should when you weigh the powder itself on a scale. Water weighs more then powder.

View attachment 126594

 

[mykeal]

I think madcratebuilder's post has been misunderstood.

While it is true that NBS does not recognize the term 'grains' as a measure of volume, the black powder community has certainly established a popular usage of the term that envelopes the concept of a unit of volume. Simply speaking, that's how we (almost) all use it. As denster points out, it's not worth getting your skivvies in a knot; we've learned how to communicate using the term and it works for us.