Here's why you don't shoot over water.

[TennJed]

Some people really do own that much land.

Enlightening video. And don't shoot at water. I don't even know why we're arguing the point it's OK to do it.

Agee that it is not something I recommend doing (shooting in water) I was commenting on the fact the the video was labeled irresponsible without knowing the details. When I first clicked on it I thought it was made for the same reason as the title suggested.

The video seemed to be showing us how ricochet happen. Seemed lots of us learned something, I know I did. What is to say that was not the intent of the video? A demonstration. it is more likely than not private land. having that much land and being able to do that safely is not that uncommon.

 

[Officers'Wife]

There used to be a redneck in this area that would shoot carp off of county bridges that was quite knowledgeable on shooting in water. His advice, even at a ninety degree angle any ball faster than a 45-70 can and will ricochet. The lighter and faster the ball the more likely it will do so.

 

[JPG19]

I know people who own several thousand acres and one friend who owns somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 acres. It's not that uncommon. I'd also suggest that our young friend, Sentryau2, reassess the amount of things he thinks he has the answers to and start to think a little more critically.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Re the video: It would be presumptuous to ASSUME that it was unsafe. I have been in places out west that you could fire in ANY direction and not endanger another soul for miles, and you didn't have to OWN the land to do it. Give the benefit of the doubt until you KNOW otherwise. It is the courteous thing to do.

 

[pendennis]

In the mid-1970's, I bought a paperback book, titled "Chief". It's the autobiography of Albert Seedman, the retired Chief of Detectives of the NYPD.

The very first case in the book, tells of a young lady who was shot in the head and killed, as she drove along the Belt Parkway. A bullet fired from an old Enfield .303 by a fisherman, ricocheted off the water, traveled almost a mile, and entered an open window in the young lady's car, killing her. The ME determined that the bullet would probably have bounced off a closed window, but it had enough energy to deliver a fatal head wound.

The odds of such a deadly incident are infinitesimal, but it can happen.

 

[gym]

Lot's of familys own large parcels of land that has been in their family for a hundred years or so. My own had a hotel on 500 acres in the Catstskills, for 50 years. They owned the land that the thruway went between. The problem was they were tricked into selling it by the mayor of the town before they knew that the state was putting the interstae right down the middle. Having no use for it with both uncles dead, the widows sold it cheap, "with a Hotel on it". It sounds like a movie plot. There were lakes creeks and plenty of good hunting land near Fleishmans NY.
The one aunt died about 6 months ago, and the second is 99 and in a nursing home. Stuff happens when you live a long life, that seems like a dream. I used to fish and hunt there some 55-60 years ago as a kid.

 

[rondog]

They bounce pretty good off of dirt too. I shot this in 2008, that's my grandson on the twin .30's. He's 16 now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoQTFbPbg_g

 

[rondog]

repost-

 

[blaisenguns]

Since the gun appears to be full auto is it possible that this was on some military firing range, or training facility?

 

[Sentryau2]

Not saying its a good a idea but I've never had a ricochet come off at 90 degrees (not saying its impossible just highly unlikely), I dont wear ears when shooting .22s (unless its got a short barrel) As my music tends to be louder then my .22 rifle. I personally have not ever had a ricochet that I could not hear, tho I have only had about a dozen or so. I'm not saying shooting water is advisable but its not 100% unsafe. The biggest thing is watching the angles. Heck ive used a .22 to go fishing for perch and bass and even catfish after a heavy rain. About the video, he most likely owns all the land around it.

 

[kwguy]

The very first case in the book, tells of a young lady who was shot in the head and killed, as she drove along the Belt Parkway. A bullet fired from an old Enfield .303 by a fisherman, ricocheted off the water, traveled almost a mile, and entered an open window in the young lady's car, killing her. The ME determined that the bullet would probably have bounced off a closed window, but it had enough energy to deliver a fatal head wound.

I remember that story. Pretty wild. You definitely have to be careful with richochets.

 

[AethelstanAegen]

I personally have not ever had a ricochet that I could not hear

I drive my car on the highway and I've never had an accident, that doesn't mean that car accidents don't happen on the highway. I have personally experienced ricochets that made no noise. The only way I knew was the sound of the ricochets hitting my unfortunately parked truck. If my truck hadn't been there, I would have never heard an impact or any sound what so ever. Right now you're operating under the assumption that all ricochets make sound and so without a sound, there can be no ricochet. Unfortunately, there can indeed be ricochets without sound. The point of the video was that without the tracers, the shooter would never have imagined rounds were ricocheting like that (in part because you cant' hear all ricochets). You're assuming your sample of ricochets that make sound is the total population of ricochets, but really you're just missing a whole lot of data.

Long story short, unless under some very tightly controlled circumstances, it's important to be mindful of ricochets and not to shoot at water, especially at shallow angles.

 

[jmorris]

Happens the same way on land too...you need impact into a back stop or a lot of land.

 

[CZguy]

Quote:
That was seriously irresponsible.

Why was it irresponsible?

More importantly, why was it seriously?

 

[David G.]

Does anyone believe that bullets (dense lead) really does loop-de-loops in the air like that? I'd be shocked if the burning portion of the tracer round didn't break loose, while the lead portion went on a more parallel path to the original trajectory.

(Not saying this isn't irresponsible unless massive land ownership or other circumstances exist.)

 

[kwguy]

Richocheting bullets, and pieces of richocheting bullets can do all manner of strange things once they hit something, to include arcing back toward the shooter. It's impossible to predict exactly what a projectile will do when it hits, which is why it's best to account for the possibilities prior to shooting. One good way to do that is to have a lot of empty real estate, and ensure that it's clear, which I believe has been repeated often in this thread.

 

[xxjumbojimboxx]

Those must have been some very high swimming carp. refraction would have made a shot at any depth very difficult, never mind the fact that water slows bullets down fast.

 

[Aaron1100us]

Well, when you shoot water at a low angle, bullets can skip. I used to shoot into a pond with an AKS I used to have. The bullets would go into the water and water would shoot up about 30 feet. But that was at a higher angle.

Sent from my SCH-R760 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Carl N. Brown]

It depends a lot on the angle. On floating targets, I limited myself to shooting down into a rock quarry pond at cans, I don't see any ricochets since the bullets obviously went down into the water. Shooting over water (at a shallow angle) with a rifle, like standing on a river bank and plinking at floating sticks, was always a no-no to me because bullets obviously skip at shallow angles. Bullets hit the surface of water like bullets hitting a solid surface: if the angle is steep, the bullet is stopped; if the angle is shallow, the bullet glances off and direction and angle are not predictable. When in doubt of where your bullet will end up, do not shoot.

 

[rhinoh]

I dont wear ears when shooting .22s (unless its got a short barrel) As my music tends to be louder then my .22 rifle.

I think we now know why he doesn't hear all the ricochets

 

[Carl N. Brown]

One of the local rivers has a rifle season for large carp; it is traditional and Virginia would rather regulate it than try to ban it. Recommended angle to hit fish underwater is generally 60 degrees to vertical preferred, with heavy slow bullets (.30-40 Krag, 200gr, 1900fps has a good rep with those folks).

 

[Sentryau2]

@rhinoh haha I actually have close to perfect hearing according to the doc (left ear is slightly damaged but that was caused by a bad idea)

 

[JPG19]

I think we now know why he doesn't hear all the ricochets

This.

rondog - Were you guys shooting AT anything in particular? I can't tell if those are targets down range and people are just not interested in hitting them, or if perhaps shooting a machine gun is just THAT much more difficult than I had ever imagined. Educate me, sir!

 

[N003k]

Sentryau2-

When it rains while you're outside, do you feel every drop that hits you?

I'm guessing not, that doesn't mean that only the ones you feel hit you actually did hit you, it just means you didn't feel them all.

What you're basically assuming with the ricochets is the same thing, just because you didn't FEEL the drop, means there wasn't a drop. Just because you didn't HEAR the ricochet means there wasn't a ricochet.

And further, the fact that you say you have some hearing damage from a 'bad idea'...well...shooting without hearing/sight protection is also a 'bad idea' that's gonna bit ya in the rump if you don't use it.

You seriously keep justifying bad ideas and safety practices just because you don't THINK they're bad...there's quite a few people (probably even a few on this forum) that thought the same way and still suffer some the repercussions, whether it's hearing loss, or taking a chunk of bullet in them. Just read a thread earlier where someone's still having pieces of bird-shot push out of their skin after 25 years from a friends recklessness while hunting...don't be that reckless guy.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Those must have been some very high swimming carp. refraction would have made a shot at any depth very difficult, never mind the fact that water slows bullets down fast.

I'm told that with a slow heavy ball of the 45-70 the shock wave is great enough you just have to get close to stun the fish. I'm also told the 405 grain ball is effective to up six foot of water, more than enough for NW Indiana creeks and drainage ditches.