Hey Chain Fire ???

[Desert Scorpion]

Has anyone really had a chain fire before, I shoot BPR all the time and never had one. I have only heard of one case, involving a Le mat revolver shooting more then once. It was because they have so many chambers in them. Anyone have a chain fire. If so what gun did it do it in.

 

[Smokingboomstick]

Chainfires don't happen if you have the corecct size of balls.(Just large enough that a small ring of lead is shaved off when they are loaded.)
Once my brother had a chainfire when he was shooting a remington 1858 with incorecct ball sizes.

 

[dwave]

Chain fires can happen with proper sized round balls, I have had one happen; it came from the back of the chamber not the front. Cap came loose and I didn't notice it. Sounded awesome and had one heck of a kick. I believe that most chain fires come from the back of the revolver when proper sized round balls are used.

Gun was a 1858 Pietta .44 using .457 RBs. .451 will shave a ring, but I prefer the over sized RBs myself.

 

[ZeSpectre]

I've only seen one chain fire, well sort of one. It was at a civil war re-enactment and all the chambers in a colt went off at once. Wasn't dangerous because there were no bullets but boy was it impressive.

 

[Smokingboomstick]

Ha! I always thought they came from the front.(This one did anyway.) I guess they go both ways. Yeah, chainfires with blanks are awesome.

 

[pohill]

Couple weeks ago, I had a double-chamber fire in a Paterson .36 caliber, 5 shot. The 4th and 5th chambers went off together. The cap was in place on the last chamber, unfired. I had cast the balls (.375) and some didn't come out perfectly round, but I shot them anyways. My fault. I had another one last year in my Spiller & Burr .36 (.375) - same thing, two chambers fired at once.

 

[4v50 Gary]

What dwave explained is exactly what Elmer Keith preached about years ago. That chain fires aren't because of undersized balls and lack of grease but because of loose percussion caps.

 

[Ferret]

Yup... had a couple of chainfires, I am 99.9% damn sure that the problem didnt occur from the front of the cylinder.

load was 25gr FFFg, cork wad, felt lubricated wad, .457 ball (yes it shaved off a nice ring).

Problem was... first chamber didnt go off, it just split the cap. Re-cocked and the cap fell off nipple 1.
Pull trigger, chamber 2 go bang..... chamber 1 also go bang a split second later.

After BOTH of these happened (one happened at a CAS match), I had the gun checked and there was every sign of the flame entering nipple 1 from the flash of nipple 2. There was also a lovely burn streak across the top of my hand where the jet OUT of nipple 1 burnt me when chamber 1 set off.

----
additional

Just talked to one of my Cowboy Pards, and he put an arguement that a chainfire CAN happen from undersized balls.. He states that he has seen a few happen because the ball FELL OUT of the chamber due to recoil from previous shots. I can definately see this happening, wont be as dangerous as two balls being fired, but, would be a nice flash!

 

[schultz's honor]

how dangerous is one of these chain fires?
Does is cause frame damage?

 

[pohill]

In the Spiller & Burr double-fire, the ball left a faint black streak down the left side of the brass frame, at about a 45 degree angle. No damage, no pain. In the Paterson double-fire (like I said, the cap was unfired and in place), just an extra big flame, double noise - don't know where the ball went.

 

[mec]

The one we had that originated from the front of the chamber sounded like a single round with a hang fire. The ten oclock ball departed with little force.

 

[Plink]

The chainfire on the Lemat had nothing to do with how many chambers it has. They can be caused by several things. Hot gasses getting around the ball and into the charge, or getting around the cap and getting into the charge. I've been lucky in not having one yet, but I'm fanatical about my loading practices. I'm sure a cap will get loose and I'll have one someday but I'm doing everything I can to prevent it.

 

[Desert Scorpion]

Yes, more chambers in the Lemat makes it more dangerous, because they are closer together. This allows for sparks to transfer much easier. I have a read an article on a magazine about the Lemat. The man said he had a chain fire becasue a loose cap fell off on one of the cylinders. When he fired, the nipple just to the left(Without the Cap) had some sparks come into it from the chamber being fired. And BOOM, didnt get hert though.

 

[mec]

I saw a post a few months ago by a guy who had just gotten a lemat and went out to shoot it. The eleven o'clock chain fire carried off his lever assembly. He attributed it to failure to use grease over the balls. Don't know. Lemats have the tight pietta chambers and it would be pretty hard to get any flame bridging over from the front.

 

[Plink]

Yes, more chambers in the Lemat makes it more dangerous, because they are closer together. This allows for sparks to transfer much easier.

I guess my point is that if the chambers are sealed, a spark won't get in. A loose cap on any revolver, Lemat or otherwise, is an invitation for a chainfire.

The man said he had a chain fire becasue a loose cap fell off on one of the cylinders.

Under the circumstances, that could just as easily have happened on any other revolver too.

 

[Ferret]

Today I went out and 'invited' a chain fire.

Pulled out my ROA and loaded chambers 1 thru 5 with powder. I then loaded 1, 3, and 5 with ball, and 2, 4 with a wax bullet. Slathered crisco over the chambers on all.
Went out and capped 1, 3 and 5 and left 2 and 4 uncapped.
There should be no way on this planet that a flame could have gotten in to the things from the front.

Fired chamber 1. Everything went ok. Cylcled to chamber 3 and fired, both 2 and 4 went off as well!!!!

This is an ROA! they have nicely recessed nipples and thick walls between the nipples. The only thing that could have been detrimental, is that ROA's have good clearance behind the nipple to allow caps to fall off!

This was definately a flash over from chamber 3 to 2 and 4.

As soon as I got the chainfire, i checked the cap on chamber 3. I started to look at it as soon as i was pulling the hammer back. I had degreased and cleaned the cylinder so that any soot would show. I could see a soot buildup around chambers 2, 3, and 4 that wasnt there on chamber 1.
Chamber 1's cap had split a little, but was still quite firmly on there (had to use a pick to flick it off). Chamber 3's cap had 3 splits down the side and fell off very easily when i rotated the chamber.

I wish i had one of those high speed camera thingies. It would be nice to have a frame by frame slow motion of this phenomenon!

Fun Fun Fun!

 

[Afy]

Ferret isnt that hugely dangerous? Like maybe running through moving traffic?

I can imagine that the experience would've been frightening, not to mention you could really hurt your self....

 

[Ferret]

Note... WAX bullets were used in the chambers that I expected to go off. I can seat these with finger pressure and dont have to use the rammer.

This greatly limited the pressure that would build up in these chambers and the wax doesn't have as tight a seal. The wax bullets that were in these chambers were found about 5 ft from the revolver.

Yeah... If i had loaded conicals or round balls into these chambers, I would have been looking at a nice little hand grenade, but, limiting the pressure in the chambers that i expected to chain fire reduced the risk greatly.

There wasnt even that much of an 'explosion' from these chambers, more like the wax got pushed out and the powder burnt outside of the firearm!
-------------------------------------

Load was 15 gr FFg, and CCI 10 primers.


Anyhow.. people who have read my 'experiments' before know that I am insane and probably watch too much Mythbusters!

The way that i look at it is... if there werent insane people like me... science would be a little behind what we actually see today. I also like to limit the risk to myself as much as possible................ a few hundred bucks for an exploded revolver is much cheaper than losing 1 finger!

 

[Afy]

I missed the bit about the wax bullets... Hence was wondering if this was a "ya'll hold my beer while..." moment.

So please tell me about your other experiments... sounds interesting...

 

[Ferret]

Not really much... seeing how much powder i can stuff down the barrel and chamber of the remmie with a couple of balls seated at the end of the barrel...

Seeing how long my 1860 replica could survive without being cleaned (my remmies havent been cleaned since the last CAS match in Oct.... and they are just fine... secret... Ballistol)

 

[Steve499]

If this newest test has the same response from some as a couple of your others did.....

Dive!...Dive!....Dive!....Rig for depth charges!

Good test, Ferret. I was shooting a recently acquired revolver yesterday with #10 Remington caps. At the first shot, 3 of the remaining 5 caps came off. If I keep the pistol, I'll get some Ampco nipples, which will fix that, but it got me wondering. Does the flash endure long enough to fire a formerly capped chamber if it loses it's cap from recoil?

I wish you had high speed camera capabilities, too.

Steve

 

[mec]

great work! Epistemology!!

I saw a deal on the history channel where the guy set up a pepper box for multiple discharge They showed it ripping off a syncopated burst. They did'nt say what he did to make it work but I'm sure in involved uncappd chambers. The pepper box had the cones enclosed just like the old allen revolvers and this would provide a fine raceway to get the flame from one chamber to the next. Maybe he spilled some powder in there just to make sure.

 

[pohill]

I think it was Mark Twain who said, "When a pepperbox goes off, the only safe place is behind it."

 

[sundance44s]

Ferret ....Ferret ...Ferret ..I think i`m starting to enjoy your mythbusting ...it is my favorite show ...Do one thing for us inquireing minds though ...If for some unknown reason you are not able to type anymore for one of your rather explosive test ...please instruct your wife to give us the test results after she opens the fix Ferret Fund .......

 

[mec]

twain is the number one historic source on the pepperbox. the old television series Paladin lifted it just about entire when they supplied the Proto Festus, Monk with one. Just like twain said, it was a "cheerful weapon" either not firing at all or letting all barrels go with a rattling crash. When Monk inherited the social club " Bordello's" from his uncle, he opened fire on a business rival and hit him with all eight barrels.