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Hi Power vs CZ p-01 for CCW

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by dave_the_swede, May 26, 2018.

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  1. WVsig

    WVsig Member

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    Give it 6 months and the hysteria will have died down and prices will be back to normal. They are already starting to fall to what they should be.
     
  2. Walt Sherrill

    Walt Sherrill Member

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    The CZ is certainly more complicated than the BHP, and because it can start from cocked & locked OR hammer down (i.e., DA) with some models, it is more complicated than many DA/SA designs. CZ's new Omega action design is somewhat simpler while retaining similar functionality.

    I wonder if that strange "sear lever" was an FN marketing ploy? If FN had NOT kept at least some of Browning's design features in the gun (and the basic Browning locked breech, short recoil mechanism was a very practical one), FN probably couldn't make much "marketing" use of JMB's name and involvement in the finished design. JMB was highly regarded in Europe back then and probably still is, just as is the case here in the U.S.

    As you know, the original JMB HP design was a quite-different gun -- single stack and striker-fired! The unique double-stack mag was a Saive feature. I think I first got my first look at the following documents from something YOU posted a long time ago -- and you use one of the images from the patent drawings in your icon, above. https://patents.google.com/patent/US1618510?oq=patent+1618510
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
  3. mdauben

    mdauben Member

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    Damn you, frogfurr! Why did you have to mention Nighthawk? I googled them and now I'm lusting over a $3000+ custom BHP!!! :mad:

    brownings-1920.jpg
     
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  4. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    mdauben

    Just great guys! Thanks to you and frogfurr I now have to win the lottery to get one of these $3200 custom Hi -Powers!
     
  5. I6turbo

    I6turbo Member

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    For Hi Power fans, if your hands are sized such that any part of your pinky finger rides on the magazine base plate (it probably does if size Large gloves are none too large for you), and you don't particularly love the feel, you should consider picking up a package of Pachmayr base pads. The are long discontinued by Pachmayr, but Impact Guns has some packages mis-labeled as 1911 pads. This is a 5-pack, labeled from Pachmayr as MBK-B for Browning Hi Power. In the Impact Guns photo they look like foam rubber or something cheap, but in reality they are quality rubber and fit the base of the magazine well (they have a strong peel-and-stick adhesive).

    I ordered some recently and received them quickly. They still appear to be available as of this writing.

    The PN you want is: 034337029892
    Here it is on Impact Guns: https://www.impactguns.com/pachmayr-02989-1911-rubber-magazine-bumper-pad-black-034337029892.aspx

    Here's a low-quality photo of the base pad on the gun (along with some Uncle Mike's Craig Spegel rubber grips - which I love for shooting, BTW). You can see where the base pad is positioned relative to the bottom of the grip. In use, for my hand, it makes the grip feel much better.

    VQXdM7t.jpg
     
  6. WVsig

    WVsig Member

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    There is no doubt that the Nighthawk is a shooter I am just not a fan of the aesthetic. The beavertail is too long for my taste, not really a fan of beavertails on BHPs, and I am not a fan of the stippling that they do on the top of the slide. Personally I like this look better. I am getting a package similar to this minus the beavertail & the checkering, unless I can score a reasonably priced T or early C series, in Spring of 2019 care of Mr Yost.

    sr_1-copy.jpg

    sr_4-copy.jpg
     
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  7. dave_the_swede

    dave_the_swede Member

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    I kinda like what novak does for Hi-powers because of that whole FBI Hostage Rescue hi-powers he made for them in the late 80's early 90's. I've got a hi-power that I paid $400.00 for, it was an israeli import a couple years back. mine is a pretty much a plane jane, I changed the hammer to a round one, the grips are micarta, the trigger is a gartwaite, and the sear is an upgraded one that is not cast. The weird thing about mine is that it's actually a browning marked one which as I understand is markings for the american market because the rest of the world knows them as FN's. If that's the case I find it funny that it was intended for the american market, ended up in Israel and then came back to the original intended market.
    By the way WVsig, do you prefer the cast or the milled frames?
     
  8. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    dave_the_swede

    For more info on Hi-Powers check out Stephen A. Camp's website: hipowersandhandguns.com. A very informative and interesting read.
     
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  9. WVsig

    WVsig Member

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    I personally like the dimension and the "feel" of the forged frames. I prefer the look of the Pre MKII and the MKIII slide. The hog nose bushing, drain plug and slide rib are not my favorite look. That said I have lots of different vintages. I built a Garthwaite custom on an cast MKIII, A Don Williams custom on a Alloy and I am having Yost build on a forged framed MKIII. I also own 2 custome C series and a custom T. For me the perfect gun would be a pre cast frame dimension with the strength of the cast frame.
     
  10. drobs

    drobs Member

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    I rotate between a FN Hi Power and a Glock 19.
    The Detective slides are gone. Sarco no longer carries them. You'd have to get really lucky to find a used one on Gunbroker. I once wanted a SFS Hi Power but since owning non SFS Hi Powers I see no need for that system.

    8071383712_17cc62a120_b.jpg

    I'm left handed so my only choice from CZ is their 85 model. I haven't looked at their yearly Glock copy though.
     
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  11. I6turbo

    I6turbo Member

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    In addition to the 85 B, the 75 B Stainless, 75 SA, and 85 Combat all have ambi safeties. The 85 Combat (my favorite) also offers other benefits, but can be hard to find NIB nowadays since it's either discontinued, or in limited production from time to time.
     
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  12. I6turbo

    I6turbo Member

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    What do you notice as differences between the forged and cast frames when handling the Mk III guns? I have a 1994 model cast frame and like it a lot, but I see people who know a lot about the guns making references to the subtle differences of the forged frame. I regret not buying one in the past couple of years when I had two or three opportunities to get a very nice early '90s forged frame Mk III guns at around $500. I'm hoping you are correct and the prices come back down to where they used to be. :)

    The only other Hi Powers I have any (albeit limited) experience with was a late 1970s model of unknown specification (because I didn't know enough about Hi Powers then to know what it was) and a pristine T-Series model from the mid-60s. I was surprised that the T-Series action was much more sloppy than my Mk III and the trigger was literally as bad if not worse than on any gun of any make or model that I can recall. I got very lucky with my Mk III in that it has a very nice trigger, far better than any non-worked HP trigger I've tried (only about 6 or 8 guns). It's slightly heavy at about 6 or 7 pounds, but breaks completely clean which to me is more important than weight.
     
  13. WVsig

    WVsig Member

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    Front strap on cast frames is thicker and less rounded. There is just a subtle difference. A lot has more to do with what you are used to vs what is better. Purest seem to opt for the forged frames over cast but both will serve you well IMHO.

    T's are typically considered the pinnacle of BHP fit and finish by many but even a monkey falls out of tree sometimes. There are certainly poor fitting and shooting examples of T series guns. For the most part the T and C series are the same guns. The C series which followed the T were the same guns with a different inventory and dating system. They also changed the bluing process sightly to speed up production. IIRC
     
  14. drobs

    drobs Member

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    Note only the full size guns. No compact / subcompacts PO1 or Rami.
    I want either ambi-safeties or no safeties in a modern defensive gun.

    For a range shooter C&R gun I can deal with non-ambi safety.
     
  15. Pilot

    Pilot Member

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    ^^^^^^This. I have an all steel BHP MK III which I absolutely love as a range gun, however, I carry the CZ-75D PCR.
     
  16. WVsig

    WVsig Member

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    That is fine choice. I used to carry a P01 a lot. These days it is a Alloy BHP or a CZ of sorts. Sphinx SDP Subcompact.
     
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  17. Confederate

    Confederate Member

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    Were the sights hard chromed as well? Can you get a couple of photos of that gun? Mahovsky does a great job on guns. They did a Beretta 70S for me a few years ago and, well, take a look:

    IMG_20170723_202214_538.jpg

    This is a gun many people would love to get ahold of. It's flawlessly reliable and was one of two .22LR pistols used by the Israeli intelligence service (the other being a Ruger Mark-series or Standard Auto). I remember years ago seeing a collection of guns the ATF had confiscated from a team of hit men and the primary gun used was a 60s-era Ruger Standard Auto, but needless to say I was thrilled when I found out I could get the Ruger in stainless steel!

    The Hi-Power would be beautiful in hard-chrome, too, but the bluing that's on the gun is gorgeous. Take a look at these:

    Browning_Hi-_Power_003x.jpg

    Browning_Hi-_Power_002.jpg

    And here's a closeup:

    Browning_Hi-_Power_004_Cx.jpg

    As horrible as bluing is as a means of protecting the gun, I just can't bring myself to remove it. What do you say?

    I noticed that the bottom one seemed to have some rust in the serrations. Seems a bit reddish.
     
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  18. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    Confederate

    I know about your Beretta Model 70S because I have the exact same gun, also Metalifed by Ron Mahovsky! It also had a problem with rust on the bluing and Beretta reblued it under warranty but it still came back so off it went to Metalife.

    See what I mean: twin brothers!

    fbAgtTf.jpg

    My brother's Hi-Power sights were also hard chrome plated. Kind of hard to see in bright daylight but easy to acquire in low light conditions.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
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  19. WVsig

    WVsig Member

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    Did you remove part of the serial number for that pic? It looks like and T series or late C series but the serial number looks incomplete. Personally unless you carry the gun or shoot it a lot I would leave it alone. The bluing process used on the Ts and early Cs is great. There is not need to refinish a T or C unless it has been neglected. This gun was finished challenged when I got it. I sent it to Ford's for a Master Blue Refinish.

    Before

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    After:

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    76hHlER.gif

    knQQqzp.gif qZuHR6t.gif

    mEMup5T.gif
     
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  20. bannockburn

    bannockburn Member

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    WVsig

    Looking at that backstrap on your Hi-Power says it all! Just beautiful!
     
  21. rpenmanparker

    rpenmanparker Member

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    I say buy the Tisas BHP clone. With a tuning job by BH Springs Solutions it is still reasonably priced and should perform very well.
     
  22. frogfurr

    frogfurr Member

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    A fellow at work bought a Tisa clone a couple of weeks ago and he is extremely happy with it. He has a Browning HP and he said the finish on the Tisa was a little better.
     
  23. RPZ

    RPZ Member

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    I've carried a stock Hi Power mkIII a lot for a number of years, and will continue to do so depending on my clothing and itinerary on any given day.

    The weight, balance, point and handling are about perfect for the 9mm cartridge. I would not want it any lighter.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018
  24. Confederate

    Confederate Member

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    I've heard nothing but good things about the clones. I had a Beretta 92 once but sold it when the prices skyrocketed after it was selected for military service. Couldn't afford to keep it. I used the money to buy two (2) Taurus clones. They were just as reliable as the Berettas, but alas, they weren't as accurate. So I sold them and bought a S&W 659 and a S&W 645, two outstanding guns. Later, I picked up a Taurus PT-92 AR stainless steel and found it to be as accurate and as reliable! I wouldn't own a Taurus revolver, though. I kept wondering why Beretta would sell their tooling to a competitor, especially one who put a better safety on their clones!

    So I know clones can really not only be the equals to the originals, but even dominate them. I love stainless guns, but could never afford the Beretta INOX 92s. I wouldn't trade my Taurus "clone" for a blue Beretta. Good things come to those who wait!

    Taurus92_1.jpg

    BTW, yes, I altered the serial number. It's a T-series and was produced in 1968. It came with the zippered gun case. Also just got three 17-shot magazines, which makes the gun even that much nicer! I've seen the clones on YouTube and they seem to function as well as the Brownings. It makes me wonder why someone would buy the real deal when the clones seem just as good.

    As far as the Hi-Power barrels are made, are they stainless? Were they always?
     
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  25. RPZ

    RPZ Member

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    Factory Hi Power barrels aren't stainless.
     
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