High court clears Hells Angels lawsuit vs. cops

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rick_reno

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10336135/

WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court refused Monday to muscle into a dispute between the Hells Angels and California law enforcement agencies over the shooting of three family pets during a police search.

That means officers can be sued by the biker group over 1998 raids that an appeals court said went too far.

The case presented an interesting question for the justices: what type of constitutional protection does someone have when police executing a search warrant shoots a pet?

For now, the justices declined to answer it.

Attorneys for the San Jose and Santa Clara county officers said that the officers had to kill the dogs, a 100-pound Rottweiler at one house and two dogs that resembled bull-mastiffs at another, to protect their safety.

Lawyers for the San Jose charter of the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club said that officers had a week to plan their searches, which were coordinated to happen at the same time early one January morning.

They had other options, including using pepper spray or asking for help from an animal control officer, the lawyers said.

The case dates back to 1997, when a carpenter was beaten to death in a San Jose strip club, the Pink Poodle.

A member of Hells Angels was arrested — although he was later found innocent — and police received information that the Hells Angels had a videotape of the beating.

‘Intrusion was severe’
Police coordinated a search of the homes of Hells Angels members and the group's club house.

They found no videotape, but seized everything with Hells Angels symbols.

That meant truckloads of Harley Davidson motorcycles, belts, hats, vests, sculptures, and pictures, as well as a refrigerator door that had a decal on it and a concrete block from the sidewalk.

No seized items were used at the murder trial, justices were told.

"The intrusion was severe," the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said in allowing the Hells Angels to sue.

The cases are Decena and Linderman v. San Jose Charter of the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club, 05-37, 05-45.
 
hard to imagine last year's court passing on an attempt to give the gov more power...
 
taliv said:
hard to imagine last year's court passing on an attempt to give the gov more power...

Considering that last-year's court is identical to this-year's court, that logic doesn't hold. The makeup of the court is identical with the singular substitution of Roberts for Rehnquist. By all reports Roberts could be Rehnquist's clone.
 
The reefer door was an obvious harassment move.

"No more cold beer or unspoiled bologna for you, dirt bag."

:rolleyes:

If you catch them being crooks, nail 'em to the wall. If you're just pissy because you didn't find the evidence you were looking for, screw with your OWN fridge.
 
The article isn't very specific (big surprise :p )...an outside reader might suppose the suit is over the three dead dogs (and on some levels it is) rather than the 4th Amendment issues that are raised in the opinion.

The appeal decided a single issue: Whether the officers conducting the search and seizures were lawfully privileged to act as they did. (There are of course several sub-issues which flow from the lawful privilege issue but the main argument is over immunity) The court says no....

I would be interested to see how the property issues (according to the opinion the law enforcement agents were a bit overzealous in seizing things labelled with Hell's Angels "indicia") are handled now that the officer's immunity has been denied and the grand-poo-bahs in DC have refused to hear the case. :confused: Traditionally dogs have been seen as property by the courts...and you can't collect damages beyond the value of the dog. (Breeders get more money for a dead bitch for example) I could see an argument for Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress maybe (depending on jurisdictional rules). The court mentions some recognition of dogs as "more than just a personal effect." See Miller v. Clark County, 340 F.3d 959, 968 n.13 (9th Cir. 2003) and "the effect of her being handcuffed just yards from where her dog Sam lay dead and bleeding was extremely traumatic."

...and of course a Civil Rights suit could follow...

Stay tuned kids!!
 
It'd be so much nicer if good Con. law didn't typically have to involve such <ahem> "iffy" defendents.

But "good" people just don't get all the great violations. :evil:

Oh well, thanks Hell's Angels for taking one for the team. :D
 
It'd be so much nicer if good Con. law didn't typically have to involve such <ahem> "iffy" defendents.

But "good" people just don't get all the great violations.

+1 on that!! If we got to the point where John Smith; the clean living, hardworking suburbanite, was screeching about egregious 4th Amendment violations...we'd all be in trouble. :what:
 
They had other options, including using pepper spray or asking for help from an animal control officer, the lawyers said.

Ah, the entertainment value provided by imagining:

1. Requiring the attorneys to demonstrate how effective pepper spray is on an attacking Rottweiler, and
2. Imagining the interagency request from the police department to animal control ("Yes, we need assistance in serving high risk warrants on the Hells Angels. Yes, high risk warrants. Yes, the Hells Angels. Well, do you have any SWAT-trained animal control officers? Hello? Hello?").
 
Absolutely-

I hate to see cops being second guessed- I think they should be allowed to kill dogs, women & children if they feel it's necessary or even just a good way to announce who's in charge if they want.

"So other than that one incident Mr. Weaver, how did you like living at Ruby Ridge?"

CT
 
Considering that last-year's court is identical to this-year's court, that logic doesn't hold. The makeup of the court is identical with the singular substitution of Roberts for Rehnquist. By all reports Roberts could be Rehnquist's clone.

last year's court hadn't felt the slobbering fury of criticizm from every nook and cranny of american demographics. it's not the change in individual's so much.
 
Just how much leeway do police have in siezing property that was not mentioned in the warrant? Are search warrants written in such a general fashion that they can just take anything? The article implies they were looking for only a video tape.

I am also interested in the property issues here.

As far as the dogs, is there good reason to enter the house unannounced? Or did they knock on the door? They could have told the homeowner to control the dogs. They don't really describe the specific circumstances of the search.
 
If the residents were using the dogs as weapons, I would expect that assault charges would have been filed against the residents. It is possible, legally, for a guard dog to be considered a deadly weapon, and people can even be convicted of murder if their dog kills someone, under some circumstances.

If no such charges were filed, it can be reasonably assumed that the dogs were merely present, not being called by their owners to attack.

If the cops were so undergunned, they should have waited a few minutes to do the search. They also could have demanded that the residents control the dogs. Clearly, the residents were not doing battle with the police here.

A search warrant is hardly a free ticket to torch someone's house because someone might be hiding in it, destroy their cars because they might be used to escape, or kill their pets because they are bigger than goldfish.

I know someone whose dog was shot multiple times and killed by the police without provocation. Some cops are trigger-happy when they see a dog.

An aside, since I've been called a "cop bigot" by a cop here... I probably SHOULD hate cops. I have lots of real-world reasons. But I don't. I just don't TRUST every cop I see, and I would advise others to be cautious as well.
 
A neighborhood tends to become pretty crime free, paradoxically, when 1%ers move in.
Biker:)
 
A neighborhood tends to become pretty crime free, paradoxically, when 1%ers move in.
Um, well ... having lived in San Diego county for a number of years (during the late '70s and early '80s, in particular) ... I would tend to disagree there. Especially when I was living out in East County ...
 
Let's be real: Crime free in San Diego county, especially back then, means only two murders, three rapes and 16 near fatal beating a night.:neener:
Biker
 
"I know someone whose dog was shot multiple times and killed by the police without provocation. Some cops are trigger-happy when they see a dog."

Not knowing how the dogs were acting, I just don't know how trigger happy they have to be.

Seing the way dogs act when I deliver pizzas (been bit 3 times) I can see a cop getting nervous.
 
Seing the way dogs act when I deliver pizzas (been bit 3 times) I can see a cop getting nervous.[/QUOTE]

The question begs: Wouldn't it be easier to cut loose with a slice of pepperonni than a chunk of tookas?
:neener:
Biker
 
ID_shooting said:
"I know someone whose dog was shot multiple times and killed by the police without provocation. Some cops are trigger-happy when they see a dog."

Not knowing how the dogs were acting, I just don't know how trigger happy they have to be.

Seing the way dogs act when I deliver pizzas (been bit 3 times) I can see a cop getting nervous.

If "getting nervous" means free rein to kill off people's pets, then I'd rather not see them being cops. There is just no reason to do this unless the cops are cornered by the dogs.

The 4th Amendment is supposed to mean something.
 
Hard for them to defend taking
a refrigerator door that had a decal on it and a concrete block from the sidewalk.

That kind of thing is more likely to get them into trouble, including on the dog bit -- if the cops were sorta out of control on the property side, it would make it easier to infer that they might have been out of control on the dog issue as well, when normally shooting the dogs could have been defended.
 
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