History Channel - Beast of Gevaudan

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The_Shootist

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Anybody else catch this episode this evening? About a beast that killed about 100 people in South of France 240 years ago?

The best part was in the last 15 minutes of the program in which they debunked the notion the "monster" was killed by a silver bullet. That involved casting and then testing .44 mag rounds made from silver against lead rounds. It included live fire tests comparing lead rounds vs the silver against paper targets AND ballistic gelatin, comparing the wound channels in the gelatin.

The conclusion they came to was if ya have to face a werewolf, best choose some good modern expanding slugs in lead. Maybe they won't kill him, but they will be accurate enough and damaging enough for you to get out of Dodge at least :D
 
I was thinking that, if pure silver is too hard, you could just make an alloy out of it and a softer metal. Then again, I'm not a professional werewolf killer. So I don't know if it has to be pure silver or not.
 
They tested a .44 Magnum round which was available in 1955 to figure out whether it could kill a werewolf in the mid 1700s????
The guns used back then would have used pure soft lead, softer than the type of lead -- alloy really -- that would be used in a .44 Magnum.

I wonder why they didn't test an ICBM? I mean, that would probably kill a werewolf .....:neener:;)
 
A silver round ball from a smoothbore wouldn't have any riflings to engage either. For modern uses, why not buck and ball in a shotgun? Say a 12 gauge lead round ball and silver buck shot.
Man, this is gonna be a pointless conversation.
 
What are you guys talking about?! You're going at it all wrong. Silver kills werewolves because it's MAGIC. There's nothing magic about lead, see. In fact, that stuff just turns your hands black. . . and robs you of your memories . . . after enough handling, that is.
 
I thought silver blocked certain kinds of magic.

I dunno, I'm not a werewolf, no matter how I might look. :p

I say Doug's on the right track. If you're hiking in werewolf country, cast up lead rounded shaped like a cup, drop a good slug of silver in the bottom. HP expands, deposits the silver. Like the penetrator in an armor-piercing round.

Also, assuming this isn't up for the Halloween connection: IBTL.
 
I'll just hope it's Earl Harbinger and let him know I'm on his side, or push him out the window followed by a desk like Owen Pitt :)

Bullets made from pure silver probably cost almost as much as Barnes DPX bullets so I'll stick with gold dots for now.
 
Well the premise was that the hunter that got the so called "beast" nailed it with one shot from a 1700's smooth bore at I guess about 20 paces. The guy doing the live fire testing of the modern silver bullets from a .44 carbine managed to get a 6" grp (or worse)at a similiar distance making the story look like B/S, accuracy wise.

On top of which, the modern silver bullets gave a through-and-through shot to the ballistic gelatin with a very narrow wound channel. Which meant it would have been a good idea for the hunter to start running after pulling the trigger - or get busy and pull a sword and hope for the best.
 
Neat.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss such things as fairy tales.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beast_of_Gévaudan

It seems to have decent enough accounts.

Many people were uneducated at the time, and prone to exaggeration. However it is not hard to imagine many predators were exterminated by humans as the human population expanded, and that remaining pockets went extinct through competition with humans.

We know of endless numbers of animals in history that are recorded as going extinct in relatively modern times. Humans normally exterminated any and all predators which they viewed as dangerous.
Consider even in the United States all Wolves and Grizzly bears were exterminated from the majority of the United States due to conflict between humans and livestock.
Most modern predators in Africa would be extinct if not for large amounts of money being used to preserve them.


This is also something to consider:

Some experts, however, state that wolves at the time may have been more aggressive than their modern-day counterparts, saying that today's generation of shy wolves is the result of natural selection favoring animals which were less prone to attacking humans with firearms.

Which makes sense. Many modern living predators which are dangerous to humans are the first to be exterminated, with those which kill livestock slightly slower to be killed off.
Now consider some wolves are very intelligent. Wolves have a larger brain than most dogs, and are considerably more intelligent (though less suitable for domestication.) There is some fairly intelligent dogs.
I would venture that many highly intelligent predators, especially pack hunters which came into contact with humans would pose a threat.
I mean consider now that humans have expanded and taken over almost all land. Any animal that wanted to survive and was intelligent enough to realize it would have tried to get rid of the invasive human species, a major competitor. Humans killed off most prey, cleared land, and turned everything into open crop space during the feudal period. Death to any wild predator.
Most of Europe was dense forests before the feudal period, and open fields afterwards. The arrival of humans spelled death for anything in the area. The primary remaining wilderness in many areas was patches set aside by nobility specifically for hunting by nobility.

Most land animals of a lot of intelligence have been killed off, except for apes in remote locations, and most of them are not major carnivores.
Yet we have many modern marine mammals for a clue as to the diversity of intelligent mammals that once existed. Especially predators such as dolphins and orcas.
It is almost certain that similarly intelligent predators on land would have had conflicts with humans and been exterminated as a result.
Meaning those which survived would have certainly had natural selection play a big part. Anything inclined to compete directly with humans would have been hunted down and ceased to exist genetically.
Those which had any chance of survival would have primarily been those which used stealth and avoided human beings at all costs.
Which is why many big cats survived up until modern times. (However even there multiple species like many species of tiger have gone extinct in the last 100 years.)

So comparing modern wolves to even just wolves of the past may not be entirely accurate. Before humans expanded everywhere animals which were aggressive, especially those which worked as a team actually had the best chance of survival. They defeated the competition. Intelligent aggressive pack animals would be more successful. While after the arrival of humans in an area they had the lowest rate of survival.
Something like a lion was simply exterminated in Europe as a threat to humans, and so most such predators went extinct on the European continent much sooner than elsewhere on the planet. Animals which stood thier ground or even advanced when faced with humans ceased to exist. Those which cowered and avoided humans lasted longer. Yet pockets of some aggressive them would be stumbled upon occasionally by peasants. Until the nobility were sent out to eliminate them.


Another thing is some fantasy monsters are linked to folklore originating to explain the sick behavior of some serial killers. Werewolves especially. The uneducated peasants hearing about and seeing gruesome scenes of such killers leading to such folklore to explain it.
Uneducated masses took facts and within a few months the stories could turn into any number of things. However the nobility was often better record keepers.
Yet even they record hunting the animals down and killing them.
 
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Looked like a .45/70 to me. The silver bullet vs. lead bullet thing was interesting but hardly 'proves' the point they were trying to make.
 
Some of you guys are smoking too much hemp for your or anybody else's good. OMG, this whole thread gives me a headache.

The HC has turned to pure crap anyway. Silver bullets and comparison tests with different bullets to kill unknown predators.

:banghead: :fire:
 
Dang I missed it, I'll have to watch it when comes on again.

The movie Brotherhood of the Wolf was based on the event.

A few years ago I visited the museum in Saugues France that is dedicated to the beast, it was interesting and this was before I saw the movie.
 
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I didn't see the history channel show , my comments were based instead on the story itself.
So I don't know how silly they got on the history channel, perhaps a little more than necessary for Halloween?
 
Zoogster, excellent post!

Let's not overlook the fact that many humans back then wore animal skins as clothing, unlike today where synthetics (GORE TEX anyone?) and treated fabrics dominate the market.

At least one modern researcher claims that there are no verified cases in modern times of wolves attacking humans in the US except one and that unfortunate soul was wearing a fur coat and hat, it was during a snowstorm, and it was likely a good faith error on the wolf's part and it didn't kill the victim.

I think it's quite possible (in an age where yummy game is plentiful) that unless the animal is sick or crippled and cannot pursue its normal prey will it attack and "gag down a foul smelling human". OR, unless an animal is fooled by fur outerwear or perhaps cover scent, and then once the error is realized a wolf will, likely as not, break off an attack.

Unfortunately the same cannot be said for bears or cougars. Bears will "eat the south end of a north bound skunk" and western cougars (which are naturally opportunistic ambush hunters) are often found in areas where prey is scarce.

The itinerant snarling cougar who visits my state (Delaware) annually has left deer kills in residential neighborhoods and on one Dupont site but it is not credited with any human attacks. Of course game is plentiful statewide here unlike parts of CA where at least 6 people have been attacked by cougars.
IberianWolf-1.gif
 
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Speaking about the "beast" of the Gevaudan, it's commonly accepted by Historians that no animal was the "mind" of all of this..

No animal would make "sexual" mutilations on it's preys.. no animal would cut the head of a prey and put it on a rock.. No animal would escape a defending prey (a 12YO kid with a sticked knife) on it's 2 posterior legs..

This might have been the work of an early serial killer.. maybe sometime using dogs or wolfs to hide his crimes..

If you are interested in this story, they are many great websites about this...

there is also a nice movie with an interesting plot, if you want to watch it. "le pacte des loups" (Brotherhood of the Wolf )
 
*spoiler alert for the History Channel show

It is apparant that there was an individual behind the killings. I forget the Frenchman's name. But the conclusion of the HC show was that the guy who killed the "werewolf" (which was assumed to be a hyena) was the perpetrator of the crimes. He allegedly trained the hyena to attack people on command. Eventually, he shot the animal with a silver bullet, producing the corpse for the public to see.

It was assumed that he could shoot the animal with such accuracy (through the heart) was because the animal knew him and obeyed his commands. He probably shot the animal from only a few feet away.

Anyway. That was the conclusion of the HC show, for those that didn't see and and were interested. I didn't notice anyone actually posting an explicit description of the show's conclusion. Thought I would throw it out there.
 
Silver...
SILVER!

I spit on yur silver! Hooowwwwwwl!

Seriously:

I watched the show. The investigators determined that in all likelihood the beast was an Hyena brought from Africa to France by some aristocrat to populate his menagerie (a common practice of the nobility at the time).

The two investigators (a police detective and a cryptozoologist) only disagreed on whether it was an escaped Hyena or one trained specifically to kill humans and controlled by a human.

The cop was pretty adamant it was a trained hyena controlled by a psycho serial killer. The cryptozoologist thought it was probably an escaped animal but didn't rule out the trained and controlled angle.
 
Good call Werewolf. I was flipping between channels and thought I caught the conclusion. Apparantly, I missed the other half.

Sooooo, Werewolf. What is the life expectancy of a werewolf. And if relevent, where were YOU between 1764 to 1767 anyway??!! I think you know more than you are letting on. *written in between casting and loading silver bullets
 
Spotted Hyena makes sense. If they were wolves, the people would have simply blamed wolves. The attacks would not have become such a legend.

This happened in the Mid-17th century! Why are they casting .44 mags?! They should be MILLING silver roundballs for a musket or rifle. You can't tell how it would actually work till you try it.

Some experts, however, state that wolves at the time may have been more aggressive than their modern-day counterparts, saying that today's generation of shy wolves is the result of natural selection favoring animals which were less prone to attacking humans with firearms.

I've heard the same thing re. the griz Lewis & Clark and other early explorers encountered in the great plains, down among the buff herds. They griz weren't mountain animals then, but lived down in the grasslands. By the accounts of the Corps they were much more aggressive than modern bears, pretty much attacking them on sight and stalking a large very well armed party of men. No modern bear would do that.

At least one modern researcher claims that there are no verified cases in modern times of wolves attacking humans in the US except one and that unfortunate soul was wearing a fur coat and hat, it was during a snowstorm, and it was likely a good faith error on the wolf's part and it didn't kill the victim.

That's not true. A kid was bit up here a few years back. And a fellow was killed in Canada.
 
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