History Channel Snipers, technique

[Hammerhead]

Hello,
The History Channel had a wonderful series of shows on Snipers. The section on British snipers really caught my attention. There were using 338 Lapua (sp?), in a bolt action. I was trying to pick up any pointers that I could.

One thing I thought was neat, they used the bolt handle to unlock the breech and to bring the bolt back about an inch, then they put a finger on the front of the bolt, and pushed it back. The expended shell was caught between the index and middle fingers. The commentator said that this was to avoid the flash and movement of a normal ejection.

I was confused to see that they did not use the tip of the finger on the trigger. It looked like they used the second joint of the index finger. I have heard discussions about tip versus base of the first joint of the index finger, but never the second joint?

Is this just something that I have missed before? Or is this as strange as I think? I am fairly sure that these were not actors standing in as snipers, and I certainly would not put my skills up against a trained sniper, but it sure looked odd.

Regards,
Hammerhead

 

[thumbtack]

I recently started using my second joint, and it feels more natural to me.

 

[Badger Arms]

On an unmodified AR-15, I have to use the second joint of my index finger. Now, one theory might be that you have less feeling in that area of your fingar and are therefore less likely to flinch or know when the gun is firing.

 

[echo3mike]

Might look odd, but if it works it ain't.

My PMI taught us to pull the trigger straight back by setting a pen in the web space between out thumb and index finger. The ball point made a nice little mark at the spot where we were to place the index finger on the trigger.

Bottom line, wherever the trigger is placed, the pull must be straight back.

Some of the same conversation here...

S.

Link to topic should work now

 

[BHP9]

I am a High Master National Match Competitior, I shoot about 3,000 rounds a year both in matches and practice. I use the tip of my finger because it gives me more control and more feel of the triggers movement. I must have complete control of the trigger because I consider any trigger pull in a bolt gun over 2 ounces way to much. This is not a typo I meant 2 ounces. When I shoot the AR semi-auto my second stage of pull is set at 6 ounces. In this type of competition no one is allowed to shoot off of sand bags or bipods. The rifleman masters the rifle and not the reverse.

I found the program on Snipers quite hilarious in a number of ways. I once stood within only a few feet of a match shooter and tried to see the brass flying out of his weapon or even catch a glint of sunlight being reflected off of the flying empty brass. Try as I might I could not detect any flying brass whatsoever until it hit the ground and bounced and most of the time it did not bounce but disappeared into the grass.

I have found training is mostly idealistic theory attempting to be put into practice. The reality of combat is quite another matter and much of it is abandoned to the reality of the battlefield. Those lucky enough to survive for a short while learn what really works and what does not but even they if they stay in combat long enough have the law of averages catch up with them. "The phrase "They were expendable" is much closer to the truth than can be imagined.

 

[PUMC_TomG]

BHP - just a question...

Did you see the segment on item identification that the British Snipers did? They hid some objects in the brush and expected the students to find almost all of the objects... and they were pretty well hidden at a decent distance...

I would suspect that if they could find a part of a dark matte finish cleaning rod of some sorts in a bush against it's branch... they might be able to see brass glinting against the sunlight... especially when combined with movement. The human eye can detect movement better than it can discern an individual item...

I'd say it's all about training. Most of us may not be able to see the brass, but these guys can. (BTW, I can usually see the brass come out of any weapon, bolt gun, AR, etc. I try to catch it too if it is a brass thrower. All depends on the individual.) Would you take the bet that the other guy COULDN'T see your brass in a battlefield environment? I know I wouldn't make that assumption.

 

[Phantom Warrior]

I read once that British soldiers in WWII were trained to fire their bolt-action rifles with their middle finger. This left the index finger free to run the bolt, increasing their rate of fire. Is it possible that the sniper technique is a holdover from that training? Just a thought..

 

[4v50 Gary]

I know that technique for rapid fire was taught before WW I but I'm not sure that Tommy's grandson, oddly enough also named Tommy, was also taught it. Regarding the catching of brass, that's purely to avoid detection.

(OK, so maybe there's a bean counter who's trying to account for every bullet? )

 

[Steve Smith]

Another Highpower competitor here.

If a marksmanship instructor is teaching his students a certain way to adress the trigger, he is wrong. Each person must spend a great deal of time behind the gun dry firing, watching the front sight while experimenting with the trigger. Eventually they will find a spot that the front sight won't move and that's the spot that they should use to adress the trigger. Each person is different.

 

[Art Eatman]

Working off BHP9's comments: The issue is control of the trigger, and this is done best with a pull that is straight back, in line with the bore.

To get that, ya gotta have a combination of shape/size of grip and size of hand that IMO determines whether you use the finger tip or the next joint.

When I spread my hand, it's ten inches between the tips of my thumb and little finger. While I normally use my fingertip, I can also get a straight-back pull with the next joint. Not everybody has meathooks that long, and could not pull straight back with the second joint.

Again, there just ain't no "one size fits all".

, Art

 

[COHIBA]

its not about the glint of brass. it's about not leaving the brass on the ground. read the TM and you'll understand the basic's. live it and you understand the real applications. i cant see for the life of me what HP shooting has to do w/ sniping. well anymore than what it has to do w/ anything BUT HP shooting. no practical applications in the field. i wouldnt own a gun w/ a 6 OZ trigger. to each his own.