HK .45 Chrono data 200gr, AA5, Titegroup, Clays

[Morgan]

More HK .45 chrono data follows. I'm playing with match and full power loads.

Gun: USP45f
Barrel: 4.41"
Bullet: 200gr jacketed flat point Montana Gold
OAL: 1.175"
Primer: Winchester WLP
Temp: Approx. 60


AA #5

7.7gr 794.0 FPS 158.8 PF
7.9gr 816.7 FPS 163.3 PF
8.1gr 833.1 FPS 166.6 PF - makes major, soft
9.5gr 972.6 FPS 194.5 PF - no pressure signs
9.8gr 1004.5 FPS 200.9 PF - no pressure signs

Light loads leave unburned residue. Confirming my thoughts that this is a fine powder for full power loads.


Titegroup

4.7gr 790.5 FPS 158.1 PF
4.9gr 813.8 FPS 162.8 PF
5.1gr 835.3 FPS 167.1 PF - soft, likely my new match load for 200gr

A versatile powder, consistent. Clean, leaving a little white residue which wipes right off. I plan on working up some full power loads.


Clays

4.5gr 840.6 FPS 168.1 PF - soft, light, clean, makes major
4.7gr 859.2 FPS 171.8 PF
4.9gr 894.6 FPS 178.9 PF
5.1gr 917.0 FPS 183.4 PF
5.5gr 969.9 FPS 194.0 PF - max load, no pressure signs

A good powder for 200gr .45 loads from light to full power. Probably too fast for 230gr full power.


All are ten shot strings, with no crazy anomalies.

Thoughts: Zak Smith has related that Titegroup is his go to powder for 9/40/45, and I can see why - versatile, consistent, relatively clean, moderately fast (for a nice recoil characteristic). If I were only loading .45 200gr I'd strongly consider Clays.

 

[NVMM]

Morgan, Thanks for the post.
I love and use Clays in my 1911. HSMITH told me about Clays, great powder.
My Hodgdon book lists a max load for Clays 4.3grs, 785 fps 17,700 cup.
I would like to know where you got the 5.5gr max load?
I use 3.8 grs for target practice and it is a very accurate, clean and soft shooting load. I also like and use the AA5 loads. I do get a gummy residue with AA5 and am thinking about changing to Hodgdon's Universal Clays.
I usually shoot lead 200gr swc's.

 

[Werewolf]

How did you arrive at the 1.175 OAL. Seems a bit short to me. Maybe not for a 200gr bullet though.

The AA#5 data interests me as that is my primary .45ACP powder.

With 8.2gr under a 230gr FMJ at an OAL of 1.25 I get 860 FPS out of a 5"bbl. You getting 833 with a 200gr bullet and 8.1 and with an OAL of 1.175 seems a bit slow. If I crank the OAL down to 1.2 and keep 8.2gr I get 890FPS out of a 5" bbl.

Honestly - I am surprised that at such a short OAL you're not seeing a higher velocity. Can .6" of barrel length make that much difference?

 

[mpthole]

How's the muzzle flash with Titegroup? I've been using W231 and the muzzle flash at night is horrible. Otherwise, I'm happy with W231.

 

[NVMM]

Werewolf I did not notice the 1.175 OAL. Seems real short to me. I would think you would see some pressure signs at the higher loadings.
I'm a fan of the 1.250 OAL.

 

[Morgan]

NVMM - I gleaned the data from several sources, the 5.5 Clays (for 200gr) is from Midway:

http://www.rainierballistics.com/loaddataMW.htm


Werewolf, NVMM - the 1.175" is for a 200gr flat point, or truncated cone, Montana Gold bullet, a little stubby thing. A few thousandths longer at the bullet shoulder hits the rifleing. The bullet base is similarly situated to a 230gr at 1.250". If it were a round nose it would certainly be longer. My 230gr are at 1.260", and just bumping the rifling - I'll probably bring them back to 1.250".

As for the velocity, who knows? I need to shoot these loads in my Colt and my HK Tactical and see if the barrel length has much effect - probably not much. It was 55 or 60 out, but I don't think that's cold enough to make a difference. I'm using Dillon dies, and using a fairly light crimp - I'm going to play with tighter crimps and a Lee FCD soon, as I've been told that will change pressures and velocities.

Mpthole - I haven't shot TG at night, so I can't say yet on the flash.

 

[Morgan]

Werewolf, you got me thinking...

I did some measurements and some eyeballing, and the 230gr is seated deeper in the case than the 200gr, making the distance between the base of the case and the base of the seated bullet .610" for the 230gr (at 1.250"), .635" for the 200gr (at 1.175"). This would give the 200gr .025" more space for powder inside the case.

I actually started a good bit longer, but the shape of these 200gr bullets simply won't allow it.

Here's a Montana Gold 200gr flat point:

You can see how it won't allow for terribly long seating without engaging the rifling (at least on an HK's chamber).

I'll post back when I have time to play with crimping and such.

 

[Deavis]

^^ Isn't that a JHP? It looks like it from the cuts in the side or is that just a reflection? Just curious if my eyes are playing tricks on me

 

[Morgan]

^^ Isn't that a JHP? It looks like it from the cuts in the side or is that just a reflection? Just curious if my eyes are playing tricks on me

Nope. That's why it's so stubby - it's build like a hollowpoint, but the cavity is full.

I'd bet Montana Gold uses the same jacket for the 200gr flat point and the 185gr hollow point, and the difference is the point on the 200gr isn't hollow.

 

[Deavis]

Interesting! I wonder why they don't do that on the 165gr 10mm FP then...